6 men dungeon

[Kaiser-Ace]

I'm a carrier DPS so I'm looking at this from a person who Mains Dragoon and is soon to add Ninja and Bard to the list of "Main Jobs" so I'm looking at this from a "How would we (The career DPS that either don't or prefur not to tank) benefit from these ideas?" perspective. And giving us a small responcibility like Ogulbuk's "Emegency Shift" idea would give us the credit we diserve and make tanking and healing less stressful if something went wrong. THUS tempting more people to give healing or tanking a shot because they know some one has their back.
This would allow for more comradery between players as well because it would bring us to a Unit level of operations instead of 4-24 individuals just beating their heads against something. It could also allow for more dynamic game play as a system like this would be skill dependent rather than just "I'm going Tank!!! Leeerooooooy Jeeeenkiiiins!!!!" and still dieing because you have WAAAAY less armor than that PLD does.

So all in all I'm interested in it because it's the best idea I've heared yet, and one I'm sure would interest Director Yoshida as well, but simply needs to be examined for abuse potential so apropriate limits can be set. For example, ONLY being able to shift to Dragon Knight when the Tank(s) go down and not being able to shit back for saaaay around 5 minutes maybe so that Raise/Ressurection can be cast and the Weakness Debuff to time out. Ex. I shift to Dragon Knight when the Warrior hits the dirt and cover him as off tank untill he's rezed. Then when he gets up he throws Beserker to cover my DPS position untill weakness wears off and we switch back.

Think SAO when they yell "Now Switch out!!!". It would also make for an obsean amount of synergy in statics when every one is in perfect synch with how the others play and can get the "Switch" timing absolutly perfect.

[ZaaZaa]

Well his idea vastly out weighs yours because it's actually a fiasable solution. and he's not suggesting DPSs off tanking, he's suggestion they turn INTO TANKS under certin circumstances.

You have explained this very well. Thank you, this added some wind the the windmill. My goal was to put a seed and now it's seem to grow, on a different way then i was expecting, but that's very fair.

[ZaaZaa]

If you edit your post you can bypass the 1k limit

aah thanks ! didn't know that.

[ZaaZaa]

Overall, allowing more jobs to tank or heal would be a good thing all around, so long as the flexibility is not exclusive to current DPS classes and jobs, and also extended to heal and tanking ones.

I could of quoted your whole text there.. but it was quite big.. but all of it was very well said.

Ogulbuk, after your reply, you have gave me no choice but to fully agree on how the jobs could have different stances. It just makes sense and i really hope the DEVS could see this and think about it.

It woul not only help flexibility and diversity.. it would actually help a ton enjoying more the job you are playing.

A+ to you.

[ZaaZaa]

Keep in mind the OP is the same guy who thinks its a good idea to remove the 'Greed' option for loot and only leave 'Need' and 'Pass'. So instead of farming on tank or healer for dps loot, now I'm forced to go dps.

Yea, that really solves tank shortage. I highly recommend spending more than zero seconds thinking about something before posting a new thread, especially when they all contradict each other.

and the DPS who try to gear their tanks will have to go as ... ? TANKS !

[ZaaZaa]

ST already tried the extra DPS route (5 DPS in instead of 4) and it didn't really make queues any faster; every time I queued up, the long wait was always due to lack of healers and tanks. Changing the core mechanics of the battle system itself for the sake of having shorter wait times for duties is going past the forest and into a landfill. Unless Square decides to abandon the holy trinity, people are just going to have to deal with it.

Darkness raid today = tank in queue, average time = 28 min.. so i withdrawed... DRG average time = less than 5 min.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Darkness raid today = tank in queue, average time = 28 min.. so i withdrawed... DRG average time = less than 5 min.

I noticed that too ZaaZaa O.O I ran a cue as a tank day one and it was 20 minutes. Ran it as MY Dragoon and only 8. Was preaty cool. All I could guess was that it being late evening by that point most DPS had their weekly gears and the tanks and healers were catching up. I give it about a month and a half before people get their "New Content rush" over with and it slows back down,

I will say though, This new iLvl 90 content is actually difficult. My DPS and rotations mannagment have both improoved since 2.4 and I'm just barly able to hit normal mobs hard enough to dammage them WITH the other 3-7 members helping. And Odins trial.... lets just say Darnus and Twitania ain't got nothing on him, he's almost as ruthless as Titan EX and twice as hard to kill.

[ZaaZaa]

I noticed that too ZaaZaa O.O I ran a cue as a tank day one and it was 20 minutes. Ran it as MY Dragoon and only 8. Was preaty cool. All I could guess was that it being late evening by that point most DPS had their weekly gears and the tanks and healers were catching up. I give it about a month and a half before people get their "New Content rush" over with and it slows back down,

I will say though, This new iLvl 90 content is actually difficult. My DPS and rotations mannagment have both improoved since 2.4 and I'm just barly able to hit normal mobs hard enough to dammage them WITH the other 3-7 members helping. And Odins trial.... lets just say Darnus and Twitania ain't got nothing on him, he's almost as ruthless as Titan EX and twice as hard to kill.

yeah i'll give it one more month to analyse and observ.. But so far it's looking good to back up the 6 men dungoens...

[Borascythe]

I've been playing MMORPGs off and on for about 10 years now. I've yet to see a good solution to the tank/healer issue.

The core problem always remains the same. It doesn't matter what game it is. People that don't enjoy tanking and healing aren't going to do it for the most part. There's a small number of people I've met that roll a tank or healer due to the long queue times for DPS. If you start cutting group sizes to 6 from 8, those same players will go back to their favored class, accomplishing nothing long-term and making queue times for 4 man dungeons far worse.

People have this really bizarre notion that Dark Knights are going to fix the tank issue. They're not. People are going to level their DRK and then drop them. Same stuff happened with MRD. People flocked to the class and then realized they hated tanking. Astrologian is the same, except I don't think anyone really believes it will solve the healer problem.

[Velox]

There will never be a time when the number of tanks and healers is equal to the sheer number of people playing DPS. It's not really so much about which jobs are available, but because only select people will voluntarily choose to play a role that carries more responsibility in a party setting. This has, and will always be the largest driving factor in MMOs.