6 men dungeon

[Duuude007]

This is where i disagree. 6 men dungoen WILL reduce queue time on DPS, it is simple logic.

6 player dungeons will entice more healers and tanks to not be healers and tanks...and instead be dps.

Party finder is FREQUENTLY used in the nexus light grind to have 1 tank/healer, and 6 dps. Suddenly there's an even worse shortage of tanks working on the tier after nexus, then there was beforehand.

Do you know the ratio, how much risk versus how much reward? Because 'logic' dictates that history will repeat itself when we do not learn from our mistakes. This is why your lofty claims aren't holding water: lack of the whole picture.

Tanks still get instant queues in ST, even now, because your method isn't working in the scenario of an even larger ratio of DPS.

When the tanks start coming back in numbers, this could be a consideration. But not before. Because it has failed on its own, it will continue to fail on its own.

Let it go. We need more well-thought out ideas to consider.

[ZaaZaa]

Party finder is FREQUENTLY used in the nexus light grind to have 1 tank/healer, and 6 dps. Suddenly there's an even worse shortage of tanks working on the tier after nexus, then there was beforehand.

Tanks still get instant queues in ST, even now, because your method isn't working in the scenario of an even larger ratio of DPS.

1. DPS would find even much harder time getting in queue for a Nexus light grind.
2. Tanks still get instant queues YES, but DPS wait less then what it would of been with 2 tanks. I never claimed 6 men dungoen was a cure for an instant queue on DPS, i just said it would reduce the DPS queue time, and it would.
3. And my "method" is EXACTLY working in the scenario of a larger ratio DPS.. it's what it is, nothing else. Y

Altough, after what you said, this assistance from a 6 men dungeon might not be as significant as i suspect. You presented your arguments quite well there.

[Staris]

no one wants the responsibility of tanking , and to a lesser extent healing.
However increasing the dps in dung/raids would help Q times because the % of players remains the same.
example 5-6 people dung with just more dps. or 9-10 raid with more dps.

However, it should also be a little more dynamic for coil/ex primals.
example add a "support" role slot for raids only, and make it require tp/mana regen (currently only bard, however could easily be ninja with a mana goad or some future class).
This is because It really sucks to get into groups whose only reason for failing is they happen to not get a bard for mana song. (which is currently very specific fights, with lesser geared players but point stands.)

[Ellatrix]

Keep in mind the OP is the same guy who thinks its a good idea to remove the 'Greed' option for loot and only leave 'Need' and 'Pass'. So instead of farming on tank or healer for dps loot, now I'm forced to go dps.

Yea, that really solves tank shortage. I highly recommend spending more than zero seconds thinking about something before posting a new thread, especially when they all contradict each other.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Keep in mind the OP is the same guy who thinks its a good idea to remove the 'Greed' option for loot and only leave 'Need' and 'Pass'. So instead of farming on tank or healer for dps loot, now I'm forced to go dps.

Yea, that really solves tank shortage. I highly recommend spending more than zero seconds thinking about something before posting a new thread, especially when they all contradict each other.

You noticed that too? ZaaZaa literally made two more posts trying to gain attention for two of the ideas that we (The REAL player comunity) have already shot down as poor ideas on here. Sounds like ZaaZaa is either trying to be a Resident Troll or should just go back to Vana'diel which they clearly miss so much.

[ZaaZaa]

Keep in mind the OP is the same guy who thinks its a good idea to remove the 'Greed' option for loot and only leave 'Need' and 'Pass'. So instead of farming on tank or healer for dps loot, now I'm forced to go dps.

Yea, that really solves tank shortage. I highly recommend spending more than zero seconds thinking about something before posting a new thread, especially when they all contradict each other.

and the DPS who try to gear their tanks will have to go as ... ? TANKS !

[MilesSaintboroguh]

And the possibility of having the coil remade for solo/small parties, which I wouldn't mind since I never did the coils and trying it now is way too late (who's gonna help someone clear T5 a year after it was out?)

[Ogulbuk]

Well the job based idea would just increase supply, you still would be locked to a role once inside the dungeon. Going for an amplified stance, like the Cleric Stance, IMO would add a much more interesting twist, and the only exploit (if we can call it so) that I can think off is players that only are willing to DPS entering the queue as tank, only so they can get in faster, but never actually being willing to fulfill the role. Adding a kick option that lets you flag the player as "unwilling to fulfill assigned role" could be combined with some flag that forbids a kicked player, with the specified reason, from queueing again for an hour under that particular role.

Dragoon says he is willing to be tank, gets picked as tank, but insist to go DPS? Kick and he wont be able to do it again for an hour. Could also even be used for a White Mage that picks Cleric Stance and refuses to turn it off in a party.

Giving it a bit more thought, another potential issue would be an abuse of stance-swapping to get through hard chunks of content. Dragoon gets agro? Turn on his tanking stance just to survive a few blows and then go back to DPS (I think some Conjurers already do this to swap into dps, cast stone, and turn it off to heal.) A solution to this could simply be that the Stance switch get a 10 minute cooldown. Once you turn it on, you are stuck in tank/healer mode for 10 minutes. Once you turn it off, you cant go back for 10 minutes. Have the game automatically activate the stance if you queue and are picked as tank or healer (so you cant change out until 10 minutes in, DPS could always turn their tank/healer stances on if they are required to do so.) Death should not clear the stance. Finally a big part of the stance could be an increase of Vitality (for tanks) and that would not do much mid fight, since equipping Vit increases your max HP but wont fill the gained max.

All melee classes could get a new single target agro building attack, or simply have agro building added to one of their rotation attacks if they are in the tanking stance.
Ranged classes may plainly need a new healing power, although Conjurers and Arcanists both already have one so its just Thaumatruge that would need being given Regen and Bard a healing song. Archer base class would be trickier. Looking at the list of archer actions, though, it seems they already get one song at level 22 even without the bard job, so it may be fair to give Archers access to Army's Paeon (FFXI's regen song, but more one-shot healing oriented and only available in healing stance)

Edit: This forum's post count per day limit is silly, I guess I cant reply again until tomorrow... even if I posted this stuff last night, I guess I posted too early in the AM, or this thing works on 24 hour timers. For now, ZaaZaa I reply to you in this edit:

I like where Ogulbuk is going, but imo, this should not be in hard content. -snip- otherwise, what would be the point of having a PLD or WAR at all

Why would you be a Paladin if you can be a Warrior tanking? Why would you be either when you can be a Dark Knight coming the expansion? Note my idea is not to just give DPS Melee a tanking mode, but also Tanking roles getting a DPS mode to counter-balance the flexibility, including giving them the ability to queue as DPS if so desired.

The fact that the Dragoon can tank in his tanking stance does not mean he will want to, though. Also, I would guess gear still takes a big part of things even with a stance that compensates. A dragoon that has the most optimized DPS gear will be at a disadvantage of a tank that is geared up for tanking, even if the stance somehow swapped some Str for Defense or other such trade, you will likely always be the most optimal with a designed-as-tank job to roll as primary tank in hard content. And finally, just getting a tanking stance would not grant the dragoon with abilities like Cover.

Overall, allowing more jobs to tank or heal would be a good thing all around, so long as the flexibility is not exclusive to current DPS classes and jobs, and also extended to heal and tanking ones.

[ZaaZaa]

Well ...

How could you write such a long text and i am limited to 1k characters ? But that was very well said friend.

Good job.

[Cuervo78]

How could you write such a long text and i am limited to 1k characters ? But that was very well said friend.

Good job.

If you edit your post you can bypass the 1k limit