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Thread: 6 men dungeon

  1. #41
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
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    Kai Magnus
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    Leviathan
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    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Black91CRX View Post
    You could say that about all aging content.
    Come Expantion when Alexander comes out as "The New End Game Raid" I bet coil groups will all but dissapear as well. They've already said compleation of final coil will not be neccisary to participate. As well as it having two modes from the get go. A "Casual" mode which is like Echo level coil and a "Hard Core" mode which will be more inline with the savage coils.
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  2. #42
    Player MilesSaintboroguh's Avatar
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    Miles Saintborough
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    And the possibility of having the coil remade for solo/small parties, which I wouldn't mind since I never did the coils and trying it now is way too late (who's gonna help someone clear T5 a year after it was out?)
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  3. #43
    Player
    Black91CRX's Avatar
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    Femke Fisker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace View Post
    Come Expantion when Alexander comes out as "The New End Game Raid" I bet coil groups will all but dissapear as well. They've already said compleation of final coil will not be neccisary to participate. As well as it having two modes from the get go. A "Casual" mode which is like Echo level coil and a "Hard Core" mode which will be more inline with the savage coils.
    That will be unfortunate. Hopefully they can come up with some way to keep Coil relevant. Considering new people join everyday, they could miss out on a lot of fun.
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  4. #44
    Player
    ZaaZaa's Avatar
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    Seika Tsu
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace View Post
    Thing is ZaaZaa, you havn't even come up with a short term solution. Lets re-examin your idea.

    Reducing DPS to 6 vs 8. This reduces the amount of DPS needed but still does not adress the Tank or Healer shortage (...) But it will not solve an over saturation of DPS or The Obvious problem of the Healing and Tank shortage.
    This is where i disagree. 6 men dungoen WILL reduce queue time on DPS, it is simple logic.

    I never claimed DPS would get instant queues with it... BUT, they would wait less.

    The tanks would be shared with more DPS, and that is a FACT. You CANT deny that, period. Now, as i said, The DPS time would reduce and then, because of that, some tanks would play their DPS classes in duty finder.. but that wouln't be enough to counter the effect of tanks sharing.

    I head you crystal clear tough, and thanks for sharing this debate. We can debate indifinately on this, it just seems we have reached a dead-end.
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  5. #45
    Player Kaiser-Ace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaaZaa View Post
    This is where i disagree. 6 men dungoen WILL reduce queue time on DPS, it is simple logic.

    I never claimed DPS would get instant queues with it... BUT, they would wait less.

    The tanks would be shared with more DPS, and that is a FACT. You CANT deny that, period. Now, as i said, The DPS time would reduce and then, because of that, some tanks would play their DPS classes in duty finder.. but that wouln't be enough to counter the effect of tanks sharing.

    I head you crystal clear tough, and thanks for sharing this debate. We can debate indifinately on this, it just seems we have reached a dead-end.
    Oh it "Simple" logic alright. Just the wrong kinda simple. But I will agree that this topic has been run into the ground now. So I'll agree to disagree. Now we might both want to haul chocobo outa here before this erupts into a full flege troll war.

    <Calls Chocobo and rides off>
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  6. #46
    Player
    Duuude007's Avatar
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    Duuude Bismarck
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaaZaa View Post
    This is where i disagree. 6 men dungoen WILL reduce queue time on DPS, it is simple logic.
    6 player dungeons will entice more healers and tanks to not be healers and tanks...and instead be dps.

    Party finder is FREQUENTLY used in the nexus light grind to have 1 tank/healer, and 6 dps. Suddenly there's an even worse shortage of tanks working on the tier after nexus, then there was beforehand.

    Do you know the ratio, how much risk versus how much reward? Because 'logic' dictates that history will repeat itself when we do not learn from our mistakes. This is why your lofty claims aren't holding water: lack of the whole picture.

    Tanks still get instant queues in ST, even now, because your method isn't working in the scenario of an even larger ratio of DPS.

    When the tanks start coming back in numbers, this could be a consideration. But not before. Because it has failed on its own, it will continue to fail on its own.

    Let it go. We need more well-thought out ideas to consider.
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    Last edited by Duuude007; 01-15-2015 at 07:54 AM.

  7. #47
    Player
    Zedd702's Avatar
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    Razai Sylvain
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    Arcanist Lv 58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ellatrix View Post
    No. The entire game would have to be redesigned.

    The obvious solution to dps queues is to queue on tank or healer instead.
    Agreed...

    TBH the BEST solution is more Tank/Healer roles... which will be 3.0, but I wish we were snuck a tank and healer role before that...

    Let me elaborate on my answer...

    The reason I say this is because when I first began playing FF14, queue times were not an issue (btw I mained summoner during this time), because everyone who liked tanking/healing could do so and level a class with the rest of the DPS community, which by the way VASTLY outnumber the other two roles because of the "responsibility" weight of said roles AND the ratio of tanks/healers to DPS.

    I like tanking AND healing. If I fail, I keep at it til I learn the encounter. Thing is I don't want to keep playing my lvl 50 tank, neglecting the other roles as I like to change it up from time to time. But if there were more of tank & healer roles, I'd play them MUCH more frequently than DPS as I like Tanking & Healing more. And I know many others share the same sentiment.

    tl;dr: If I had 4-6 tanks/healers that played differently like how WAR to PLD, WHM to SCH, BLM to BRD, MNK to NIN does, I wouldn't really mind neglecting my other classes as I have more variety of a tank and healer to play. Then I would not flock to DPS when I get bored...
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    Last edited by Zedd702; 01-15-2015 at 09:00 AM.

  8. #48
    Player
    Ogulbuk's Avatar
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    Atabey Guabancex
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    Behemoth
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    Dragoon Lv 100
    Zedd702, agreed.

    I love playing tank, and this game actually forced me to play a healer to unlock Paladin. I am trying to level both jobs a bit in parallel (Paladin and Warrior) and will definitively level up Dark Knight once it is available, but even then, only 3 tanking jobs is a very limited repertoire, and should I want variety I am forced to go to a DPS (or healer) role.

    Here is an idea I been playing with in my head: give every class/job a dual role and let them que as both. The classes I played, some already have "stances" like the Cleric Stance to do more damage while soloing. Amplify that, with a bit of variety. Give every job and class alternate stances that allow them to fulfill a secondary role. Give melee classes the ability to go into tanking mode, and ranged classes the ability to go into healer mode (and heck let tanks and healers also to jump into dedicated dps modes.)

    It would even fix something I consider to be a design issue in this game: should you lose a tank or healer in battle, you could allow a DPS to swap "stance" and fulfill the role, allowing the party to actually recover instead of dooming a party to failure because a healer or tank died. Heck this is already true with Arcanists. I seen them take over the healer role in some situations, and by level 30, they basically have all the tools to do the job that I did as a Conjurer (some thanks to cross-class abilities.)

    You could add a lot of variety to tanking and healing jobs without having to create all new ones.
    (1)

  9. #49
    Player
    Stylelink's Avatar
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    Limsa, where else would i get the salt
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    Thy A'
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZaaZaa View Post
    The only real issue i am finding in 6 men dungoen is the loot. Tanks and healers would get gear faster then the rest and that's quite unfair. A solution to that is the tank and healer gear would statistically drop less then the DPS, who would get a boost. I think that could work.
    And in that case even less people would play tank or healer
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  10. #50
    Player
    Zedd702's Avatar
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    Razai Sylvain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ogulbuk View Post
    -snip-
    That's an interesting idea. It would require a bit of work but that could potentially fix DF.

    Something that would allow one role to assume the job of another prior to entering the dungeon/trial/coil and if someone were to leave said duty would then allow the members to decide on the next to assume the role and stats would adjust once its confirmed by the party. Then DF can replace the missing DPS/Tank/Healer queued...

    It would have to be something decided before entering the dungeon and only if a member leaves as if anyone can do this at any given point of the instance would be terribly chaotic...

    But I like the idea on paper, just needs fine tuning.
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