6 men dungeon

[FranSeara]

Kaiser, the problem is people don't WANT to roll as a healer/tank. You can give all the incentives you want, but the novelties will wear off and if people don't want to go something besides DPS, then you can't exactly force them to. We can only hope Dark Knight and Astrologian are interesting enough for people to stick with them.

Agree, Playing healer,dps and some times tank, I get burnt out after about 2 -3 hours of healing/tanking. Out comes the Bard. I hope the jobs are fun and bring more balance to the Q's. but you cant make players play tanks or heals

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Well they'd still get instant queues simply because there's so few tanks playing that they can fill those spots that no one else wants to fill.

[ZaaZaa]

Well they'd still get instant queues simply because there's so few tanks playing that they can fill those spots that no one else wants to fill.

Right but the idea is not getting ALL jobs instant queue, because that is simply impossible. The idea is to reduce the waitig time for DPS with some incentitive. The 4500 gils reward is a joke, let's face it. Now a 6 men dungoen will greatly reduce the waiting time in queue for DPS and after that, if DPS still QQ on a 20 min waiting queue, well, that's their problem.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Right but the idea is not getting ALL jobs instant queue, because that is simply impossible. The idea is to reduce the waitig time for DPS with some incentitive. The 4500 gils reward is a joke, let's face it. Now a 6 men dungoen will greatly reduce the waiting time in queue for DPS and after that, if DPS still QQ on a 20 min waiting queue, well, that's their problem.

Don't get me wrong ZaaZaa, I'd love the DPS cues to go down too. But I'm just not seeing how this in particular is a solution. At best it would do nothing to fix it at all and at worst it could dammage it worse than ever. There NEEDS to be a solution but it's much more complicated than Add a Job or Reduce/Increese the Cue Numbers. The core problem is "Why are there so many more DPS Players" which is a question that can't be answered by players and maybe not even the devs them selves. In 1.0 there was the "Fatuige System" where you could only level one class so much per day before it stoped earning EXP.

The idea was that it'd deture players from using the same class all the time and ultimatly add diversity to the player base. How ever, instead it was one of the greatest mistakes that the privious director did because truly dedicated level grinders like the ones from FF11 could wind up getting ALL classes to that 0 EXP threash hold in one day thus hurting the player base and ultimatly one of the main killing factors for 1.0's Dev team.

So while a solution is needed it needs to be examened carfully as to not make the problem worse. Remember how hard it is to find FATEs and how infrequently some spawn? That was a consequnce of a hasty decition made back during the 1st releise of the "Lightning Strikes" event. And it's been a constant problem since then because of one hasty decition they made 3 months into the games release.

[ZaaZaa]

(...) But I'm just not seeing how this in particular is a solution. At best it would do nothing to fix it at all and at worst it could dammage it worse than ever.

I just can't get it why reducing, as you said, the cue numbers on DPS wouln't help significantly, and quite frankly, i just can't see how this idea would make it worse. BUT, if i read between the lines, you are saying that if the queue time is reduced for DPS, more healers and tanks might want to re-role a DPS precisely because of that, so then, we are back on square one. I agree, but still...

I also beleive the real problem is making people WANT to play tank/healer roles. The incentives are too weak. Here are a suggestion : how about creating a special ability, a skillchain, between tank and healers to make a super buff on party ? You played FF11, you know what it means. Its fun and rewarding. I wouln't mind a nice haste buff

[Duuude007]

Tank popularity is the key problem, and is caused largely by the human factor. They effectively must be leaders, and if they don't lead well they are berated leading to fewer interested.

Id personally like incentive to keep 2 tanks in parties more often... Nexus was horrendous due to onetankplox mentality. If tanks were more popular, there would be more of them.

Perhaps there could be some sort of wondertwinpowersunite buff if a party has two tank jobs? (probably a pipe dream, still...)

[Kaiser-Ace]

Tank popularity is the key problem, and is caused largely by the human factor. They effectively must be leaders, and if they don't lead well they are berated leading to fewer interested.

You could be on to something. Tanks are rare because of how much people mistreat the ones that are in the game. I certanly don't like it when a DPS critisizes how I tank and I wind up thinking "Ok, you tank the pulls while I suck at DPSing, how does that sound?" Thus the DPS vs Tank hatred. Then Healers start to be rare because they are the 1st to get blamed if ANYTHING happenes. It dosn't matter that the party died from Megaflair's one shot kill because aparently a healer that dosn't suck can heal the entier party even though every one is dead. This the Healer vs DPS hatred and the Tank vs Healer conflicts.

People don't want those positions because they arn't fun. And they arn't fun because of how poorly they get treated. It causes the thinking "I can get yelled at and critisized IRL for free, why am I going to pay 12.99 USD a month to get the same treatment online?"

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I can vouch for that. I main as a healer and the moment I slip, I get hate thrown at me with everyone telling me how to do my job. If a tank gets too ballsy with the large pulls and dies, I get blamed for not keeping the tank alive. As a WHM, I have to make snap decisions in an ever changing situation, which also means I have to decide who I have to top off and who has to bite the dust. I bet most people roll as DPS because they can just run around and hit things and the only time they will get called out is if they either A) keep running into AOEs or B) have extremely low DPS.

No one wants to bear the burden of a healer or tank.

[Ellatrix]

I'm glad you aren't in any way in charge of game design, since you don't think things through properly.

Also, try reading. You keep missing this point: the intrinsic issue with tanks is many players don't want responsibility. If you're bad at dps (outside of coil) stuff just dies slower. If you're bad at tank or healer, people die or have a much rougher time.

[ZaaZaa]

I'm glad you aren't in any way in charge of game design, since you don't think things through properly.

Also, try reading. You keep missing this point: the intrinsic issue with tanks is many players don't want responsibility.

AGain, and AGAIN, even if people don't want to play tanks, making 6 men dugnoens will REDUCE the DPS queue time, and that is a FACT. I never said it was a great solution, just a little improvement.

Another way to make people WANT to tank and heal, would be to adding a skillchain, like in FF11, for healers and tanks only.

But i know what you will say... It will make things worse because skillchain is adding a responsability and those who will miss the skillchains will be pointed as n00bs. Don't forget that MANY players don't play tanks and healers simply because it is a boring job.

Could be skilchains between the 2 tanks for a DEF buff, and a healers skillchain for a haste buff. Just suggestions.