Item level compression in Heavensward?

[Renik]

snip

I would like to add something to your post and in response to others.

First thing is that Yoshi already confirmed that they were working on an idea to add specific stats to gear pieces, like traits or set bonuses, this is a first step for the hybrid system of vertical/horizontal progression.

And last, i always keep seeing the use of BiS, and how this would mean illusion of choice more than real choice, what this people fail to understand is how BiS is applied almost exclusively to hardcore raid groups, who are a minority in this game, in general horizontal gear progression offers choices to players, to pursue pieces of gear with close values which offer slight advantages on pair with the difficulty of the content that drops it, not everyone will have the time, the static or the skill to gear the BiS, but they will still be competent to play all the contents even if they don't have the BiS.

Ultimately, there are always preferences for play-styles, so even if there's a BiS one could chose to go for a different set to make the play style more comfortable, like chose if you want gear to make mudras have shorter recast, or an increase in ninjutsu potency, a way to enhance the damage caused by nin dots or the critical damage dealt by melee skills, there will always be a BiS, but the capacity to get or not get it, and the choice to play on a more comfortable way will always be there as well.

[Alberel]

Considering the iLvl stat on the character sheet has 4 digits SE appears to have already planned for our iLvls to soar into the thousands...

[Deathscythe343]

Seems unlikely that they will do this given that this is their first expansion. They have enough other things to worry about at the moment. This really isn't a huge problem right now.

[Alberel]

Horizontal Gear Progression is where gear increases the amount of content you can do without increasing the Character's overall power to much. Currently there are three pieces of content that you might seek to have BiS for: FCoB, i80 PvP and Uncapped PvP. All three have different secondary stat needs and limits. By collecting more gear you can enhance your capabilities in each, but do not grow more powerful. One gear set will not rule them all. If new content was added that needed different gear, but that different gear does not overshadow existing gear then you have horizontal gear progression.

This is also what makes horizontal gear progression so hard to achieve as well though. Many games take a lazy route and simply add a special stat to each gearset that you need to have x amount of in order to survive a specific piece of content. Doing it in this way can actually make it incredibly frustrating for the players because they essentially gain no benefit from the new gear besides meeting an arbitrary requirement that does nothing for their combat abilities.

Done properly, horizontal progression on gear does still improve your combat abilities but by way of versatility and utility instead of power. FFXI is a perfect example of this as many pieces of equipment had effects on them that modified your skills. The result was that changing from one gear set to another caused you to lose some effects and gain others, thus it balanced itself by nature of the effects being mutually exclusive and some content would require you to use certain sets over others. Unfortunately the gear-swapping in FFXI ruined the whole concept as everyone was able to gain the benefit of every set at once but the theory was sound.

[Doki]

The numbers aren't THAT big right now. Keep it as is!

[Malevicton]

Trying to give a satisfying amount of horizontal progression to the players obsessed with it is like trying to give a satisfying amount of crack to an addict.

[Lemuel81]

Their not going to compress stats on the first expansion. And honestly the thought of seeing that happen again in an MMO just makes me want to cringe. Have you seen the chaos it caused WoW who just recently did this? was a nightmare.

[Asael]

If a new set bonus comes out that is better than the other it will still just replace all the gear as it does now. If a new 1 comes out and it sucks now you have nothing to look forward to or chase after. Maybe you end up with some choices but would it be any more than what we have now?

This is basically what I was getting at with the, "Certain gear pieces at some point (that due to their aspects) would be considered "must haves" and would ultimately end up seeing a lot of use." As in some pieces will be considered better while others would end up being sub-par. Though that is something that will happen anyways even with the vertical gear progression model we use now. That's ultimately inevitable no matter which way we go about it.

The idea here on this point is to find ways that make gear unique and it becomes something each player will pick and choose to what suits them best. Essentially tailoring gear to one's own preferences. You need a piece of gear that has a beneficial enhancement that will make it a first pick choice even over other items of a higher item level.

If all you want is gear to stay relevant longer well there is still Glamour which is a huge hit and drives tons of people to go after armor sets that otherwise are dead on arrive.

True glamors have given gear more relevance, but only in aesthetic style preferences. It's a good thing no doubt, but given the heavy restrictions they place around a lot of the gear it kinda undermines that point. Though I would like to see more options than simply leaving it at stylistic elements alone.

Catching up isn’t all that hard to be honest. I stopped playing for months. I came back and in a week I had the item level high enough to do relevant content with no problems. Sure as a fresh player you may have to spend more time in some older content to get some gear going before you start working on more relevant gear but do you really want a fresh 50 jumping into final coil where they will just outright fail? It is an extreme example but the point is having new people go through easier content allows them to get a little more accustom to what level 50 is before they start going nuts.

Yes catching up after a few month hiatus isn't too overwhelming of a task (although some would beg to differ I'm sure), but I'm talking about over the game's life time. Say 5 or 6 years from now (assuming the game lasts that long) catching up to content that is at item level 500+ becomes an absurdity. Players coming in at that point become almost solely dependent on the veteran players to haul them to current content. Either by spending days and days carrying them through content or shelling out millions in gil to craft up to-date gear for them (which also causes a problem in the learning curve as you just mentioned ie. jumping straight into current raid content). Also given the way a good chunk of the community behaves towards new/behind players I'm will to bet many will not be willing to do that causing greater disparity. With that the problem that arises then is the game begins to die on a very slow bleed out as the game can't hold on to new players. But why do all of this when it can simply be prevented in the first place.

As far as your second point goes, that's what 2.0-2.5 content is for. It makes for a great game foundation for new players to learn how to work their class/job, and the basics to handling game mechanics. I think the main story line quests and endgame content that is here now will provide ample opportunity for players to learn the general and intermediate skills they will need for the rest of the game.

Bottom line is (at least for me) continuously increasing the item levels to absurd numbers is simply a superficial, bland, and boring way to implement progression. I just don't see myself doing what we are doing now for the next 5+ years rinse and repeat. I also think it brings about problems when we keep going deeper and deeper into the game's future (as which has already been mentioned earlier).

[Fawkes]

It might be confusing for new players leveling to 60 and having item levels go from being roughly in sync with player level the whole time and knowing something ilvl 35 is good to wear in the level 35 dungeon, to doing level 55 content and wondering if your i120 is good enough or not.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Done properly, horizontal progression on gear does still improve your combat abilities but by way of versatility and utility instead of power. FFXI is a perfect example of this as many pieces of equipment had effects on them that modified your skills. The result was that changing from one gear set to another caused you to lose some effects and gain others, thus it balanced itself by nature of the effects being mutually exclusive and some content would require you to use certain sets over others. Unfortunately the gear-swapping in FFXI ruined the whole concept as everyone was able to gain the benefit of every set at once but the theory was sound.

Yes, unlimited in-combat gear swapping made FFXI's Horizontal Gear Progression system a Per Ability BiS Vertical Progression system though few are willing to admit it. FFXI also has some minor trouble with gear lifespan where some pieces ended up BiS for far to long.