Item level compression in Heavensward?

[Ultimatecalibur]

From what I gather from that list, horizontal progression is either over powered gear or exactly the same as vertical, but crafted items instead. Is the point that most upgrades should come by somehow using old gear as base, applying some magic on it, and getting a shiny new piece of gear? How is that not vertical and making old gear obsolete when you finally get your new piece? I don't see how set bonuses or enchants have anything to do with either, as you can just apply them to both, and upgreadable Legendary weapon just screams vertical to me. Or am I just thinking too literally about the words?

Horizontal Gear Progression is where gear increases the amount of content you can do without increasing the Character's overall power to much. Currently there are three pieces of content that you might seek to have BiS for: FCoB, i80 PvP and Uncapped PvP. All three have different secondary stat needs and limits. By collecting more gear you can enhance your capabilities in each, but do not grow more powerful. One gear set will not rule them all. If new content was added that needed different gear, but that different gear does not overshadow existing gear then you have horizontal gear progression.

[Alberel]

Horizontal Gear Progression is where gear increases the amount of content you can do without increasing the Character's overall power to much. Currently there are three pieces of content that you might seek to have BiS for: FCoB, i80 PvP and Uncapped PvP. All three have different secondary stat needs and limits. By collecting more gear you can enhance your capabilities in each, but do not grow more powerful. One gear set will not rule them all. If new content was added that needed different gear, but that different gear does not overshadow existing gear then you have horizontal gear progression.

This is also what makes horizontal gear progression so hard to achieve as well though. Many games take a lazy route and simply add a special stat to each gearset that you need to have x amount of in order to survive a specific piece of content. Doing it in this way can actually make it incredibly frustrating for the players because they essentially gain no benefit from the new gear besides meeting an arbitrary requirement that does nothing for their combat abilities.

Done properly, horizontal progression on gear does still improve your combat abilities but by way of versatility and utility instead of power. FFXI is a perfect example of this as many pieces of equipment had effects on them that modified your skills. The result was that changing from one gear set to another caused you to lose some effects and gain others, thus it balanced itself by nature of the effects being mutually exclusive and some content would require you to use certain sets over others. Unfortunately the gear-swapping in FFXI ruined the whole concept as everyone was able to gain the benefit of every set at once but the theory was sound.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Done properly, horizontal progression on gear does still improve your combat abilities but by way of versatility and utility instead of power. FFXI is a perfect example of this as many pieces of equipment had effects on them that modified your skills. The result was that changing from one gear set to another caused you to lose some effects and gain others, thus it balanced itself by nature of the effects being mutually exclusive and some content would require you to use certain sets over others. Unfortunately the gear-swapping in FFXI ruined the whole concept as everyone was able to gain the benefit of every set at once but the theory was sound.

Yes, unlimited in-combat gear swapping made FFXI's Horizontal Gear Progression system a Per Ability BiS Vertical Progression system though few are willing to admit it. FFXI also has some minor trouble with gear lifespan where some pieces ended up BiS for far to long.

[Dervy]

I just want to avoid being ilvl 200 by this time next year. Whatever they can do to alleviate that, like adding in horizontal item progress, would be very nice.

You're telling me you wouldn't want your ilvl to be over 9000?!

In a serious note, you have to understand what type of game this is. It's a Themepark MMO. They may add forms of horizontal progression, but at the end of the day, the games foundations are based upon vertical progression and this is evident as they've confirmed they're adding a token based system for the next set of raids in Heavensward. Token system = gear progression = vertical progression.

They can incorporate elements of Horizontal Progression along side the Vertical Progression, but don't get your hopes up. You'll end up regretting it and cry into your pillow.

[Dhex]

It's a Themepark MMO.

A theme park full of rides you have no reason to go back and ride again. Horizontal gear would keep content relevant - right now the only reason to go back and do the first three Extreme Primal fights is the chance at a pony - the gear is inventory -1 for most people.


Old dungeons are only being used because they dumped the Relic quest into them.

First Coil is for mat farming and maybe glamour.

Second Coil is for tomes and alt classes.

Sycrus is... for something? A minion? Or something.

What's Labyrinth of the Ancients again?

[chrillix]

Old dungeons are only being used because they dumped the Relic quest into them.

First Coil is for mat farming and maybe glamour.

Second Coil is for tomes and alt classes.

Sycrus is... for something? A minion? Or something.

What's Labyrinth of the Ancients again?

Couldn't agree more with this. I've never seen content go obsolete as fast as I've had to witness with ffxiv.

[Ryans]

I've never liked item level to begin with. It is a stupid and lazy way to design gear. It leaves no room for creativity on either the developers or the players part by forcing everything to be equal. I'm sick and tired of everything needing to be equal. Of course it would require a change in the stat system to allow for diversity in both gear stats and player choice. No more one main stat and four secondary stats. Hell, I'd rather have more stat options to give the illusion of choice even if there was no real difference.

Slightly more on topic, if they are keeping item levels I'd rather scale all pre-51 gear to ilvl 50 and not increase ilvl so quickly at cap. Why jump up 10 levels every patch? Ilvl 61 in 3.1, 62 in 3.2, etc... That would have no effect on actual gear performance as the stats could still scale at the same rate if they wanted. I'd personally rather have horizontal progression, but that isn't a very popular model in today's MMOs.

[Felis]

All what item level do is setting the maximal cap of the stats. The higher the item level, the higher the maximal stats a gear can have. Level requirement and ilevel are independent of each other

It would be no problem to keep the current lv50/ilevel 120 gear, put them into dungeons, sharing the chests with mats and give them the same droprate like the current darklight gear. Then the players can choose between farming those lv 50 dungeons xx times until they have a full ilevel 120 set or just keep on with leveling and get another ilevel 120 set in the last level up dungeon with a higher rate.

[Ametrine]

I genuinely expect something along this line to happen. I was actually trying to wrap my head around this working , as gear from iLVL 50 to 60 exists as dungeon drops and crafts. ....Maybe make it the "normal" gear, where it has a level requirement below max? Darklight or another new option replacing Artifact by being the new gear you step into endgame in?

We BADLY need more horizontal gear choices. It's even worse for weapons. I opted for the Weathered Yagrush route for my White Mage as it was the ONLY choice aside from second and final coil drops that has any sort of relevance that doesn't require the INSANE kind of grind Relic requires. Despite that, I regret doing so as I now see that I've seriously nerfed myself in harder content. Not making that same mistake on SMN, twelve be with me.

Also, Soldiery Tomes are pathetically easy to get at this point for iLVL 100 gear sets,(I got that Yagrush so fast from Frontlines, which is incredibly lucrative for Tomes if you play during it's "happy hour"), and thus a great deal of the dungeon dropped gear is passed right over. My suggestion would be set up tome gear prices like they are for Wolf Marks: a larger variety of gear sets at different iLVL tiers, and put the prices of said tiers increasingly higher with increase.

[Asael]

We BADLY need more horizontal gear choices.

This.

I'm not too keen on the compression idea, it's not wholly necessary. All they need to do is slow down and minimize the ilvl increments, and slant the game towards a more horizontal model. In this way gear gains more longevity and stays relevant over the game's life span. We really cannot stay on this vertical gear treadmill forever, and especially at the rate we get new gear. Gear treadmills get really old and really fast. IMO it's stale already.