What's in a Name? (Astrologian Ver.)

[treuhavik]

loregasms.

Loregasms.

[Grayve]

We are getting access to a Sharlayan Library? Thanks, Fern!

It certainly sounds like it...

[WHS]

I must have missed the memo stating that the new Astrologian job is the Sharlayan version of the more familiar one we currently see at the Observatorium.
Thanks for the information, though! I've always felt it strange that the city-states don't have their own guilds for each class. It's one thing to associate lancers and archers with Gridania, musketeers and marauders with Limsa Lominsa, and gladiators and pugilists with Ul'dah, but quite another to have just "one" guild for each profession based in just one city.

It makes it appear as though any foreign practitioner of that discipline would have to travel to that city to learn the craft. Of course, I don't think it's actually that straightforward — the Archons apparently mastered their professions in Sharlayan, so it suggests that, in Sharlayan at least, there are traditions which are separate from those of other city-states.

For example, I don't think Y'shtola is beholden to the elementals of the Twelveswood, despite ostensibly being a conjurer.

Actually in 1.0 you would be right on base. We did in fact have to travel to a city state to train specifically on a given art. We used a currency called Guild Marks. Which has been long abandon but they were there for a short time.

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...bb46da3cc7493e

Maybe I can link the article in picture form so others can enjoy. Seeing as its soon to be archived.
Here we go:

[IMG][/IMG]

[Niwashi]

I don't know much about the Japanese difference, but it looks like there's a slight not-mutually-exclusive difference between skilled and knowledgeable. Ishgardians possess the ability to read the stars to divine the future, Sharlayans possess the knowledge of the spheres required to harness their power. Which one's the Astrologian? To use a different field of study, what if Ishgardians were wonderful gardeners whereas the Sharlayans were knowledgeable horticulturalists, but both were going by the name "Botanist?"

Technique is not always academia, and I suspect that has something to do with the difference between Isghardian Astrologians(士) and Sharlayan Astrologians(師), and why they chose to keep the words pronounced the same in both languages to preserve the insanely hard to articulate nuance, even if it's quite easy to point at them and say, "THAT is not THAT!"

If it suggests the difference (or at least a shift in primary focus) between academically trained and practical-experience trained, wouldn't the Sharlayan version with 師 indicate the more academically focused of the two? Yet somehow, that's the version used for us (once we can get it) even though by the way the game works, we learn all of our classes and jobs by doing them, not by studying them.

[lololink]

I think the main difference between the two is that 士 is more for warriors meaning that Ishgard astrologist are doing it for war, they are using the stars to see when the dragons are going to attack and such things, while 師 is for teacher, it means that it's different from the Ishgard's one because they Ishgardians didn't use astrology for war but as a science, that different between war and science can't be made in english. Or you'd need to call one Army Astrologist and the other Scientific Astrologist.

[Niwashi]

I think the main difference between the two is that 士 is more for warriors meaning that Ishgard astrologist are doing it for war, they are using the stars to see when the dragons are going to attack and such things, while 師 is for teacher, it means that it's different from the Ishgard's one because they Ishgardians [edit: think you mean "Sharlayan" here?] didn't use astrology for war but as a science

Ok, I can see that too when it comes to the Ishgardians and Sharlayans, but it still seems like the Ishgardian 士 version would be a better match for the player character job which (like Ishgard) is also battle-focused.

I guess the difference is subtle enough to explain away by saying we use the Sharlayan spelling just because we learn it (if in fact we do) from Sharlayans even if we direct its results a bit differently. Still seems a bit odd, though.

It might just be that 師 gives a more highly respected nuance to the word, and the Warrior of Light is supposed to be the best of the best (at virtually everything). But I thought both 士 and 師 were pretty well-respected. (My understanding of Japanese is extremely limited, though, especially when it comes down to differences that are more in nuance than direct meaning.)

[kyuven]

A full breakdown of the kanji involved for those who care:
星: "Star" pretty much just "star"
占: "Fortune" or "divination"
術： art. Such as "art of war" "art of combat" that kind of thing.
And the aforementioned two kanji for "person who does this thing"
In other words, these dudes are, by our terms, Astrologists, Astrologers, etc. People who look at the stars and tell fortunes.
And now you know why they use the eorzean equivalent of tarot cards

[lackofwords]

Foxclon's reply states that the shift from one character to the other is intentional, with the former being an Ishgardian spelling, and the latter a Sharlayan one. There is also the fact that (while both esentially meaing 'person') the meaning of the two characters actually differs slightly (士 being used in words like 騎士/knight, 兵士/soldier, 消防士/fireman and 師 being used in words like 教師/teacher, 医師/doctor, 薬剤師/pharmacologist).

...The main reason behind this was that in Eorzea, spoken language has far more weight than written language (with literacy rates amongst the commonfolk being low). As both Japanese renditions of the job name are pronounced exactly the same, it felt right to have the English terms also be the same, preserving the oral similarity. As for the slight difference in meaning between the Ishgardian and Sharlayan spellings in the Japanese, we agreed that these could be explained within in-game quests, NPC dialogue, or tomes found in...certain locations ().

Wait, what?...
-In Japanese the names differ in spelling
--Contradiction; denizens of Eorzea doesn't care for written language due to literacy...

And...
-Difference between Ishgardian and Sharlayan spellings in the Japanese will be explained in quest, dialog, and tomes
--While there's no difference in English, so it is just going to be in quotes ("Astrologian") to signify its somehow different while not being different at all?...

Note, I've wrote dialog, instead of dialogue. The difference is the latter is the British spelling of it. Such as color vs colour. Or jail vs gaol.
Perhaps, that'll be a more fitting if there was another variant to spelling Astrologian...

I'm not sure leaving the words being the same and trying to explain their differences will be as meaningful.
Like if I were to say I'm going to read a book. There'll be no distinction between if I'm going to be reading an e-book, or a book book. Both are books, while the medium it is on is vastly different. And going into detail to explain the difference just seems silly.

[lololink]

Wait, what?...
-In Japanese the names differ in spelling
--Contradiction; denizens of Eorzea doesn't care for written language due to literacy...

Well considering astrology, the one that knows about it should be able to read, it would be hard to write the prediction if not, also I think a lot of people in Eorzea knows how to read.

-Difference between Ishgardian and Sharlayan spellings in the Japanese will be explained in quest, dialog, and tomes
--While there's no difference in English, so it is just going to be in quotes ("Astrologian") to signify its somehow different while not being different at all?...

The problem is that it doesn't carry any difference in the meaning while it does in japanese, in english they might simply tell us that there is a little difference between Ishgard's and Sharlaya's way of astrology.

Note, I've wrote dialog, instead of dialogue. The difference is the latter is the British spelling of it. Such as color vs colour. Or jail vs gaol.
Perhaps, that'll be a more fitting if there was another variant to spelling Astrologian.

It's not a difference in meaning, it's just a different language, Jail and Gaol means the same thing while 士 and 師 doesn't mean the same thing, they chose not to make a difference in english because you can't create this in english.

[Zedd702]

EDIT: Oh by the way, slight off-topic but I did want to ask something regarding Machinist.

In the past FF games have often used the term Machina using a hard "C" sound (Mah Kee Nah). I wonder if the pronunciation of Machinist is supposed to using a similar sounding pronunciation or if you're going for the more traditional pronunciation?

Yeh I was like "Lol Mah-sheen-ist? No. Mah-ken-ist..."