What's in a Name? (Astrologian Ver.)

[Fernehalwes]

Recently, Foxclon posted a reply to a player query about the name astrologian.

As most of you know, the term astrologian has been used in ARR to refer to those Ishgardians employed at the Observatorium in the Coerthas central highlands. The Japanese term for the profession is 占星術士 (sen-sei-jutsu-shi). When the new astrologian job was announced for Heavensward, however, the documentation shown at the Tokyo Fan Festival had a different 'spelling' for the Japanese: 占星術師. This word, while pronounced exactly the same (sen-sei-jutsu-shi) can be seen to be using a different 4th character.

Foxclon's reply states that the shift from one character to the other is intentional, with the former being an Ishgardian spelling, and the latter a Sharlayan one. There is also the fact that (while both esentially meaing 'person') the meaning of the two characters actually differs slightly (士 being used in words like 騎士/knight, 兵士/soldier, 消防士/fireman and 師 being used in words like 教師/teacher, 医師/doctor, 薬剤師/pharmacologist).

So why, then, did the EN choose to stick with astrologian for the job name than choose a different term (like, say, astrologer)? Well, back when deciding the terms to be used for the new jobs, I discussed this very issue with Oda-san (XIV Lore Team lead). A proper conveyance of slight difference in meaning between 士 and 師 couldn't simply be done by having one be astrologian and one be astrologer because the difference between 士 and 師 is different than the difference between astrologian and astrologer.

Because I wasn't ready to simply change the word for the sake of changing it, I explored several different options with Oda-san, finally coming to the consensus that keeping the terms the same in English was the best option. The main reason behind this was that in Eorzea, spoken language has far more weight than written language (with literacy rates amongst the commonfolk being low). As both Japanese renditions of the job name are pronounced exactly the same, it felt right to have the English terms also be the same, preserving the oral similarity. As for the slight difference in meaning between the Ishgardian and Sharlayan spellings in the Japanese, we agreed that these could be explained within in-game quests, NPC dialogue, or tomes found in...certain locations ().

I hope that helps clear things up!

(On a side note, now that Fan Fests are all finished and 2.5 patch craziness is winding down, I'm hoping to take time over the next few weeks to sit down and address a lot of the pending questions that have been filling up the Lore Forums. Thanks for being so patient, and thanks to those players who have chimed in to answer stuff where they could. You guys are lifesavers!)

EDIT (01/09/2015): I fixed a critical spelling error in the Japanese word(s) for astrologian (the first two characters are supposed to be 占星 (sen-sei), and I had them backwards as 星占 (sei-sen)). The rest of the post remains unchanged. I apologize for the craziness!!

[Dynza]

To be honest, I'd've been more than happy with the differentials between Sharlayan and Ishgardian being Astrologist and Astrologian. But then again, you're right in that is isn't really the same in terms of translating, and you can't really use Astronomer for a number of reason. =)

Ah well, Astrologian is fine with me. I just worry that some folks are going to end up pronouncing it incorrectly for a while and others are going to shorten it (Go Astros!) Either way, nice to see you again. Get to work on the Dravanian naming and Au Ras soon, please =)


EDIT: Oh by the way, slight off-topic but I did want to ask something regarding Machinist.

In the past FF games have often used the term Machina using a hard "C" sound (Mah Kee Nah). I wonder if the pronunciation of Machinist is supposed to using a similar sounding pronunciation or if you're going for the more traditional pronunciation?

[Ansemaru]

...so what you're saying is that Heavensward is going to include the rumored lore library. Smart money's on it being in Sharlayan, since we're going to Dravania as it stands.

[treuhavik]

Smart money's on it being in Sharlayan, since we're going to Dravania as it stands.

The abandoned Sharlayan outpost contains a library that we'll gain access to...maybe.

[Wolfandre]

....or tomes found in...certain locations ().

Dat hype.

To be honest, I love hearing about the discussions and decisions you guys have to make regarding things like this. I'm a world-creator/lore guy/thing, so hearing about how other people do it helps me not only see the game I'm playing in a different light, but also helps me improve on my own world-building. So thanks for chiming in here, Ferne!

[Bayohne]

Recently, Foxclon posted a reply to a player query about the name astrologian.

As most of you know, the term astrologian has been used in ARR to refer to those Ishgardians employed at the Observatorium in the Coerthas central highlands. The Japanese term for the profession is 星占術士 (sei-sen-jutsu-shi). When the new astrologian job was announced for Heavensward, however, the documentation shown at the Tokyo Fan Festival had a different 'spelling' for the Japanese: 星占術師. This word, while pronounced exactly the same (sei-sen-jutsu-shi) can be seen to be using a different 4th character.

Foxclon's reply states that the shift from one character to the other is intentional, with the former being an Ishgardian spelling, and the latter a Sharlayan one. There is also the fact that (while both esentially meaing 'person') the meaning of the two characters actually differs slightly (士 being used in words like 騎士/knight, 兵士/soldier, 消防士/fireman and 師 being used in words like 教師/teacher, 医師/doctor, 薬剤師/pharmacologist).

So why, then, did the EN choose to stick with astrologian for the job name than choose a different term (like, say, astrologer)? Well, back when deciding the terms to be used for the new jobs, I discussed this very issue with Oda-san (XIV Lore Team lead). A proper conveyance of slight difference in meaning between 士 and 師 couldn't simply be done by having one be astrologian and one be astrologer because the difference between 士 and 師 is different than the difference between astrologian and astrologer.

Because I wasn't ready to simply change the word for the sake of changing it, I explored several different options with Oda-san, finally coming to the consensus that keeping the terms the same in English was the best option. The main reason behind this was that in Eorzea, spoken language has far more weight than written language (with literacy rates amongst the commonfolk being low). As both Japanese renditions of the job name are pronounced exactly the same, it felt right to have the English terms also be the same, preserving the oral similarity. As for the slight difference in meaning between the Ishgardian and Sharlayan spellings in the Japanese, we agreed that these could be explained within in-game quests, NPC dialogue, or tomes found in...certain locations ().

I hope that helps clear things up!

(On a side note, now that Fan Fests are all finished and 2.5 patch craziness is winding down, I'm hoping to take time over the next few weeks to sit down and address a lot of the pending questions that have been filling up the Lore Forums. Thanks for being so patient, and thanks to those players who have chimed in to answer stuff where they could. You guys are lifesavers!)

Thanks for the info, Ferne! Enlightening as always! (Actually this is similar to how I chose my forum name... but that's a story for another day.)

[TinyRedLeaf]

...the former being an Ishgardian spelling, and the latter a Sharlayan one.

I must have missed the memo stating that the new Astrologian job is the Sharlayan version of the more familiar one we currently see at the Observatorium.

Thanks for the information, though! I've always felt it strange that the city-states don't have their own guilds for each class. It's one thing to associate lancers and archers with Gridania, musketeers and marauders with Limsa Lominsa, and gladiators and pugilists with Ul'dah, but quite another to have just "one" guild for each profession based in just one city.

It makes it appear as though any foreign practitioner of that discipline would have to travel to that city to learn the craft. Of course, I don't think it's actually that straightforward — the Archons apparently mastered their professions in Sharlayan, so it suggests that, in Sharlayan at least, there are traditions which are separate from those of other city-states.

For example, I don't think Y'shtola is beholden to the elementals of the Twelveswood, despite ostensibly being a conjurer.

[Squintina]

Thanks for the info, Ferne! Enlightening as always! (Actually this is similar to how I chose my forum name... but that's a story for another day.)

Now I wanna know

[Fusionx]

What are the chances of getting Fernehalwes back in the Dev Tracker? If I remember correctly, he got excluded (or maybe the localization forums?) because of something like a bunch of typo correction post replies getting throw into it?

I think it'd be great for the Dev Tracker sidebar to have some loregasms.

[Omegakiyohime]

I wonder if "certain places" means that we are going to explore the Sharlayan Colony in Dravania.