[Reminder] Classes Are Not Jobs [dev1033]

[Cairdeas]

I like the Idea. Especially since imposing a heavier cost on the Stamina for cross class skills iwould be a better penalty then lowering its power output below anything close to 75%.

[Favz]

Good explanation from the OP.

I would prefer to carry "traditional" names to be entered as "higher" or "advanced" classes.
One though is that they could basically be (a subset of) the abilities of (two of) the existing classes with additional bonuses.

It could be required after you've leveled two of the current classes before you can start a quest that leads to "higher class".

For example:
To create a Paladin, you must have maxed Conjure and Gladiator.
Creating a white mage, you must have maxed Conjure and Thaumaturge.
To create a Warrior, you must have maxed Gladiators and Marauder.

So basically the higher class is one limitation to the current system (with one exception).

This can be done in many different ways. One is this:

Every senior class has one or two roles they are supposed to fill in the group.
Ex1 Warrior = Tank.
When the you receive the advanced class, the Warrior is the pre-loaded with tank capacities of the two current classes that are pre-required. And you may also
a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus on defense and hatred.
You receive a reduced ability to damage in battle, you can not use any healing ability or magical ability.

Ex2 Paladin should be a "tank" with the possibility of some healing.
When the you receive the advanced class that Paladin is the pre-installed with refueling capabilities, and a few healing spells from the two current classes that are pre-
required. And you also get a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus on defense and hatred.
You may not use any magical abilities rather than healing.

Ex3 Berserker, each doing melee DPS.
When the you receive the advanced class that Berserker is the pre-installed with damage talents from the two current classes that are pre-required. And you may also
a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus to damage in the melee.
You will receive a reduced defense and you can not use any magical ability.

Ex4 White Mage = healer.
Then they provide you with the advanced class as White Mage is the pre-loaded with healing abilities mate two current classes that are pre-required. And you may also
have a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus healing abilities.
You get reduced physical defense and you can not use any ability that gives damage.

EX5 Monk = melee DPS with no healing.
When the you receive the advanced class that Monk is preloaded with damage abilities from two current classes that are pre-required. And you also get a
special ability that is unique.
You get bonus to damage in the melee.
You will receive a reduced defense and you can not use any magic that gives damage.

EX6 Black Mage = distance magic DPS.
Then they provide you with the advanced class as Black Mage is the pre-loaded with talent series of injuries from the two current classes that are pre-required. And you
have a special ability that is unique.
You get a bonus to magical damage.
You get reduced fysikst defense and you can not use any healing or
no-magic damage.

EX7 Green Mage = crowd control.
Then they provide you with the advanced class as Green Mage is the pre-loaded with crowd-control abilities of the two current classes that are pre-required. And you
have a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus on crowd control. You get reduced physical defense and you can not use any healing or magical ability that gives damage.

Ex8 Scholar = ranged magic DPS and healing
When the you receive the advanced class that Scholar is preloaded with magical DPS and healing abilities of the two current classes as pre-required. And you
have a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus magical damage and healing.
You get reduced physical defense and you can not use
physics injury.

Ex9 Blue Mage = magic DPS and melee DPS
When the you receive the advanced class that Blue Mage is the pre-installed with damage talents from the two current classes that are pre-required. And you may also
a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus magical damage.
You get reduced physical defense and you can not use any healing.

EX10 Dark Knight = melee DPS and magic DPS
When the you receive the advanced class as Dark Knight is the pre-installed with damage talents from the two current classes that are pre-required. And you
have a special ability that is unique.
You get bonus on melee damage.
You may not use any healing.

Ex11 Samurai = melee DPS and Tank
When the you receive the advanced class that Samurai is the pre-installed with injuries and refueling capabilities of the two current classes that are pre-required. And
You also get an ability that is unique.
And then you get a bonus on melee melee damage.
You may not use any healing.

Ex12 Ninja = Tank and melee DPS
Then they provide you with the advanced class as the Ninja is the pre-installed with injuries and refueling capabilities of the two current classes that are pre-required. And you
also get an ability that is unique.
You get bonus on defense.
You may not use any healing.

Ex13 Ranger = no-ranged magic DPS.
Then they provide you with the advanced class that Ranger is the pre-loaded with various attacks from Archer. You also get a special ability that is unique. And you
get the bonus of physical distance damage. And you can not use any magical abilities (healing, DPS, etc.).

Ex14 Ex Red Mage = no limts
This gives just a quest reward with special abilities that I unique. There are no restrictions and bonuses otherwise. No abilities preinstalled.


If we imagine the three different roles of tank, healer and DPS so we get the following combination classes (whichever comes first is the most important):
Tank and DPS;
DPS and Tank
DPS and healers
healers and DPS
Tank and healer
Healer and tank
Then there are those who only have one role:
Tank
healer
(Where the DPS can be divided into a number of different
physical melee DPS
magical DPS
physical distance DPS
physical melee DPS and magical DPS
magic DPS and physical melee DPS
magical DPS and physical distance DPS
physical distance DPS and magical DPS

Then we have the possible specialists that do not fit entirely:
Crowd Control
buff class
Pet class

And then there is a natural way:
Anyone who can do everything =)

D vs The 14 examples above are not sufficient to cover all combinations of roles as a player could wish for.

[Cairdeas]

I'd just like to point out that Ninja in XI was a bastardization of the Job. And that traditionally they were Simply Thieves with Black Magic.

[JillianNekonia]

I'd just like to point out that Ninja in XI was a bastardization of the Job. And that traditionally they were Simply Thieves with Black Magic.

QFT... and my god I hope they make ninja a viable DD this time not some heavy cost DD that results in it becoming something completely different. Though I would not be surprised if they made "Dual wield" nin only.

On another note I agree with the sentiment that classes are not jobs and hope that people realize that jobs are what you make them, not like it's that hard to make an exact copy of any of the jobs from the old FF games. Tools are there you just need to use what's inside that brain case and apply them.

[Akheron]

Jobs > Weapon Specialists.

Sorry, but at this point everyone's specced into a red mage regardless of class, and it's pretty lame. i want a unique character who follows a specific path.

As of right now there is absolutely no tactic in group mechanics, everyone just beats on mobs till they die. No tanking, occasional group healing, no support tactics, it goes on and on.

In FFXI I loved the idea of building up a classical FF job. I think they've tried way too hard to make the game really different and obscure. Go with what's worked well in the past and improve on it. Rather than improving on the basic format, they just went off the deep end with obscure ideas on how the game will be played. Also guild leves are the most half ass thing I've ever seen in an MMO. It seems like they just didn't have time to implement actual unique quest givers, and threw in 3 or 4 leves to do over and over. We shouldn't be getting charged yet. The lead developer stated the game would be free until it met their standards... your standards must be pretty damn low.

[Cairdeas]

Jobs > Weapon Specialists.

Sorry, but at this point everyone's specced into a red mage regardless of class, and it's pretty lame. i want a unique character who follows a specific path.

You can, you just have to self impose those limits currently.


Some of us like the open unlocked nature of the game as is and don't mind added on specialization but not at the expense of the freedoms we already have.

[gifthorse]

To be perfectly frank, I would quit without even looking back if they removed the armory system. I think many of the issues people have with the armory system - not having a defined direction, lack of feeling unique - are issues which can be resolved with some simple mechanics.

[Vaymathias]

Taking TP, MP and combining them with stamina would make battle more userfriendly and create a unique feel for each weapon and job within.

Removing MP would be kinda....off? for me. Something about it seems strange.

I would keep MP, but remove TP and do something like what they did with Xenogears battle system.

Have three types of attack, weak, moderate, and strong. They would each use stamina, and the player could string them together to create weapon skills. You would need enough Stamina for each attack. Maybe even keep auto-attack and have auto attack be equal to strength as the "weak" attack, but instead of needing Stamina it generates stamina, along with a natural stamina gain like there is now.

This way I wouldn't have to use more than 3 of my ability slots to have access to my WS's, I would just need to know what combo to use to create the weapon skill. This would also require WS's to be tied to the actual type of weapon, which I'm totally for.

I'm just throwing ideas out there, maybe something will stick or spark ideas in others.

[CptnGamble]

The Armoury system was created for fanboi's (imo). We fanbois know what skills a WHM has, A BLM has, a RDM has, a MNK has, a PLD has, ect, and what roles they play. What squeeeeeenix did was give us the tools, albeit not all the tools...yet, to make these archetype "jobs" by ourselves.

So SE should reiterate the fact that we don't have set "jobs" and post some builds to fit certain roles for those who need their hands held.

[Vaymathias]

The Armoury system was created for fanboi's (imo). We fanbois know what skills a WHM has, A BLM has, a RDM has, a MNK has, a PLD has, ect, and what roles they play. What squeeeeeenix did was give us the tools, albeit not all the tools...yet, to make these archetype "jobs" by ourselves.

So SE should reiterate the fact that we don't have set "jobs" and post some builds to fit certain roles for those who need their hands held.

Maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't.

Whether they should or should not, is a moot point, a lot of people are talking about a fundamental change to the armory system, or scrapping it all together. This is the third forum in a row that I read this since you keep copy pasting it like it solves all the problems.

Right now, all I can see the armory system being is "when you change your weapon, you change your class". That's it, summed up in one sentence. It would be better if they just made it so you can change your class any time you can change your weapon just from picking your class out of a list, and then everything that you previously had equipped to that class would be automatically be equipped, unless you don't have it in your inventory.

It would make it a whole lot quicker for me to change my setup when I wanted to compared to the way that it is set up now.