[Reminder] Classes Are Not Jobs [dev1033]

[Tabby]

Great explanation. I wholeheartedly support the notion of creating our jobs by selecting abilities from our various classes. What we really need now are more and better defined abilities, and more significant effects from attributes, so that we can create the perfect job.

or it could be something you Assign yourself and automatically get loaded out with the skills for that Job that you already have from your currently leveled Classes.

Would this preclude the ability to swap out skills? I'm really hoping for something more flexible, perhaps even a third option.

[Cairdeas]

You'd still be able to modify your load out after the intitial selection and that loadout would be saved for every time you equipped that job.

[Tabby]

You'd still be able to modify your load out after the intitial selection and that loadout would be saved for every time you equipped that job.

Oh lovely. Sign me up as a supporter.

I really wish people would give this idea more thought. I think so many are hung up on class and job names rather than thinking about the ROLE (and here I'm purposely using a different term from class/job) they want to play in parties. Given a proper revamping of abilities, and perhaps a new class or two, players can build a ninja or paladin or whatever just like they remember. Or if they wish, they could build something completely new and wonderful.

So what we really need are revamped class abilities, new classes, more significant effects from attributes, and finally some kind of job title system that would satisfy even the most ardent FFXI fan. Perhaps even some kind of unlocking system for these job names as suggested in other threads.

Would you be against brand new abilities that unlock as new jobs are unlocked?

[Aldarin]

A post I feel that everyone should read, there are many complaints about the lack of job uniqueness, The fact of the matter was that there was supposed to be a lack of set roles for jobs, so you could make a character however you wished.

[Kimahri]

Just food for thought. Why exactly was it that Nobuaki Komoto was canned as the director from this game?

[Cairdeas]

He wasn't canned he took over the Lead Design role so he could concentrate more on it. Hes still the Lead Designer.

[Kimahri]

He wasn't canned he took over the Lead Design role so he could concentrate more on it. Hes still the Lead Designer.

No. He stepped down as Director. Clearly, even this fact evades your lack of poor judgement. Lead Design? Sounds like a big demotion.

[Hitoriki]

Maybe they should be.

[Heartfire]

I have to agree with Shazaam. I honestly couldn't agree more.

FFXIV had a lot of neat ideas. But they were all executed in a way that is less than decent. That's why the game is hurting. Although the ideas may seem cool, they really aren't practical. Although after reading that article, (http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=20024), the class system suddenly made a lot more sense to me. Though I still think it functions as absolute trash, I can appreciate the thought that went into designing it.

FFXIV needs to let go, and admit that all of the "innovative features" are just failures. (Fatigue anyone?) The entire game has failed. Although some of the ideas they have would be neat, they just aren't practical in an MMO.

For example, mixing and matching abilities from classes to make a job.
vs.
Having a class/job that has it's own set of defined abilities / role in a group.

With the first option, anyone can do anything, and there is no reason to be any particular class over the other. We're all given the same amount of points to spend on actions, and the same choices for what abilities we want to equip. Although this sounds like fun, we don't really get the ability to customize. We just get the ability to add more useless crap to our bar, and eventually everyone would play the same all-around build of character. We're basically given every ability / trait in the game and can just mesh it together into one "ultimate" (and boring) character.

With the second option, (having a defined role in a party), gives the game a sense of direction. Classes/jobs would have a set of abilities they can use, and that is what would make them different from players in a different class. We don't have to worry about every single player eventually having the same combination of abilities. Choosing a path and sticking with it is what makes classes unique.

That's not to say that they can't make it so there are customizations within each class. Or that we couldn't have a system that was similar to a sub-job system. But being able to cast a Rank 40+ spell on a Rank 5 class is broken, and invites a sense of futility in playing. What we have now is not "versatile" or "creative" in any way. It's just adding more toys to the box. Eventually we'll have favorites that we play with, and won't even look at the others.

We need to think about what is best for the community, and what is best for getting the game back on track. Having a system where there is no penalty for choosing the best abilities of every class to make some Paragon of Every-Class Excellence actually makes the game pretty boring. The way that RPGs tend to work requires assessing a problem, and to over come it, making do with what we have. Having every class and their abilities available, (assuming you've leveled them, which I imagine given enough time, we will), takes all the challenge out of it. There should be more strategy than that.

Now, SE's idea was pretty interesting. I have to hand them that. And I think that in a single-player game, this system could be interesting. But because of the need for group dynamics in this game, we simply can't have this type of system. It just isn't viable.

I think this problem goes a lot further than just the class system. The fact is that SE has to seriously rework the game because their ideas, while creative and genuinely interesting, aren't viable for a MMO. If we've stuck it out this far, (as I'm sure that anyone who has been a real trooper in the game wants to see this bird get off the ground), we should be accepting that some design ideas might not be as good as others. If SE is actually big enough to admit that the problems are straight from their designs, then we should be big enough to accept their apology, and let them fix it. But if we have so many whiners out there saying "Don't touch my Conjurer. I like having every useful spell in a Final Fantasy game wrapped into one class!" Or "Don't change X feature. It's fine as is," then we aren't going to get anywhere.

If the game was fine as it is, then they wouldn't be completely over-hauling it. I really do agree with Shazaam. We just have to admit it didn't work and put in a strong basis for things that have worked in the past. From there, we can work on it.

[Grundy]

Extremely well presented MZ, thoughtful and concise. I'm a believer.