[Reminder] Classes Are Not Jobs [dev1033]

[Xatsh]

The Op is right Classes do not equal Jobs, they are the building block to make jobs. If you look at everything in the game almost all the abilities in FFXI are present just spread out among all the classes. Put all those abilities back together on 1 class and you have a very unique job.

The reason why everyone is complaining everything plays the same is because people are playing the classes and not jobs. If you truly make something out of the different classes then you make something unique.

Make a Pld out of your glad and at rank 50 you can actually negate almost all the dmg you take for like 40secs out of every min. You can cure yourself, and hold hate on 2-3 mobs at once. Your dmg will fail, but hey you are a tank.

With almost all my classes above 30 now I can say no 2 job really play the same when you build something with them.

Archer is a range dd with high spike dmg

Lnc gets Stamina crazy fast and builds tp like mad on top of that has strong debuff and buff attacks. A combination of dragoon/sam/dnc from 11 almost.

Pug is an Evasion Tank and decent dd. Cross between nin/mnk

Mar is a tank or a Warrior like class depending on how you build it.

Glad is well a tank, they suck at dd. BUt there is no class in this game able to negate as much dmg as this class. Basically the Pld of this game if you build it right.

Conj is the main healer (has all the status and cure spells) and the nuker (although it is weak at that atm...)

Thurm is a sorta rdm/drk hybrid. Has all the strong debuff spells and absorb spells (which combined with roaming soul and the transfer spell can give a dd or a tank 100secs of a buff)

The armory system is literally what you make out of it... if you do not make anything out of it you get 7 blank canvases which all look the same.

[Cairdeas]

I'd like to reiterate.

All Conjurer is a Direct Magic User (Someone who casts Single Unit Spells that deal all the damage or healing at one time.)
All Thaumaturge is is a Over Time Magic User (Someone who Casts Spells that work over time instead of doing everything all at once.)

Neither is a White Mage or Red Mage, They But you can make a White Mage or Red Mage by pulling the right spells and skills from here and there.

[Rau]

I'd like to reiterate.

All Conjurer is a Direct Magic User (Someone who casts Single Unit Spells that deal all the damage or healing at one time.)
All Thaumaturge is is a Over Time Magic User (Someone who Casts Spells that work over time instead of doing everything all at once.)

Neither is a White Mage or Red Mage, They But you can make a White Mage or Red Mage by pulling the right spells and skills from here and there.

It's funny because thm is better at both

[Shazaam]

The Op is right Classes do not equal Jobs, they are the building block to make jobs....
The armory system is literally what you make out of it... if you do not make anything out of it you get 7 blank canvases which all look the same.

Unfortunately, they DON'T equal Jobs. And the building blocks are weak. The system is what we HAVE made of it, not what we will make of it, and the system has failed, unfortunately. Many of the current complaints have been about the inability to differentiate the classes. That criticism is not going to fade from a defense of the current system. The game HAS to change or it will fail.

I don't want this game to fail, but I do realize that the current system of F2P will not support this game or bring in new customers. If you think that you can make a PLD out of your GLD, then all props to you, but it isn't cutting it for the people who quit the game, and it certainly isn't attracting new players.

If you REALLY love this game and want it to succeed, then please don't defend the original systems, as much as you may like them, because they will end this game quickly.

The armory system is a great idea, but it does not allow the building blocks to create your own 'jobs', it needs to change. Add a class/job system on TOP of the already existing system, and you instantly create a few things:
1)The 'Final Fantasy' feel
2)A goal for low-mid level players to aim for
3)Class differential that allows players to feel unique in a group

Cairdeas, I think you are wrong in your statements, well-intentioned, but wrong. You CANNOT make a 'white or red mage by pulling the right skills from here and there'... you just make a 'grey mage'. Grey is mushy and boring. 'Any class can be any job'... that is gray. That is what the majority of MMO gamers have decided. Unfortunately, there is no MMO without a large player base.

I love the FF franchise and would like nothing less than to see FFXIV have a rich and fulfilling future. There needs to be change for that to happen.

[gifthorse]

Unfortunately, they DON'T equal Jobs. And the building blocks are weak. The system is what we HAVE made of it, not what we will make of it, and the system has failed, unfortunately. Many of the current complaints have been about the inability to differentiate the classes. That criticism is not going to fade from a defense of the current system. The game HAS to change or it will fail.

I don't want this game to fail, but I do realize that the current system of F2P will not support this game or bring in new customers. If you think that you can make a PLD out of your GLD, then all props to you, but it isn't cutting it for the people who quit the game, and it certainly isn't attracting new players.

If you REALLY love this game and want it to succeed, then please don't defend the original systems, as much as you may like them, because they will end this game quickly.

The armory system is a great idea, but it does not allow the building blocks to create your own 'jobs', it needs to change. Add a class/job system on TOP of the already existing system, and you instantly create a few things:
1)The 'Final Fantasy' feel
2)A goal for low-mid level players to aim for
3)Class differential that allows players to feel unique in a group

Cairdeas, I think you are wrong in your statements, well-intentioned, but wrong. You CANNOT make a 'white or red mage by pulling the right skills from here and there'... you just make a 'grey mage'. Grey is mushy and boring. 'Any class can be any job'... that is gray. That is what the majority of MMO gamers have decided. Unfortunately, there is no MMO without a large player base.

I love the FF franchise and would like nothing less than to see FFXIV have a rich and fulfilling future. There needs to be change for that to happen.

I don't think this thread is a defence of the original system so much as an explanation of the underlying concept. Anyway, I think both systems can coexist, the armory system and a job system.

The Original Poster mentioned being able to assign/attach a name to your load-out. Now, suppose that if in attaching this name, your character received a boost to relevant abilities/stats and at the same time, received a decrease to certain other abilities. If this was the case, then you would become a specilist in that role, and you COULD become classic Final Fantasy staple job you always dreamed of playing.

For example, say you wanted to play the role of a Black Mage in a party. You've levelled up both mages to a certain level and have enough skills to support this role. You then opt to assign yourself the title "Black Mage", and with that comes a boost to your offensive spells. But at the same time it decreases the effectiveness of your defensive and healing spells. So, in effect, you're a very good DD, but a bad healer. Hence BLM.

All the armory system ever needed was extra support from the development team.

With the upcoming Role-specific gear (see the BLM gear sketches in the latest producers letter), then such a system could be even more viable by allowing us as players to demonstrate our roles in the gear that we wear.

With the changes outlined above, you could have the best of both worlds: freedom to play as you wish, role differentiation, classic final fantasy atmosphere, and endless possibilities.

[Lacard]

I really liked the way you phrased all this. It makes a lot of sense. I for one have also "created" a paladin by leveling the needed classes.

[Cairdeas]

I really liked the way you phrased all this. It makes a lot of sense. I for one have also "created" a paladin by leveling the needed classes.

All we need now is a system that rewards us for doing so by calling us Paladins in game that doesn't destroy the current open system

[Shazaam]

What we need are actual Paladins, and not a new title.