[Reminder] Classes Are Not Jobs [dev1033]

[viion]

Amma call them jobs and you cant stop me!!! At end of the day its just a descriptive word to request something, If you say "What job are you?" you're not exactly going to turn around and go "i dont understand the question, what is this job you speak off" unless your being a cheeky ass lol.

[gifthorse]

I love the concept of this system (the armory system) and it was something I was going to make a thread about myself. So I'm glad someone else took the initiative.

Classes aren't roles, they are simply a means to an end.

I think one of the issues is that SE has not fostered our ability to make our own roles. So although we should be able to make a BLM or THF, we can't do so under the current system. Similarly, if the role you want to play requires high lvl THM and, say, MAR abilities, then how viable is this system in giving us freedom if it makes us rank up both classes simply in order to fulfill our dream of playing that particular role?

[gifthorse]

Unfortunately, they DON'T equal Jobs. And the building blocks are weak. The system is what we HAVE made of it, not what we will make of it, and the system has failed, unfortunately. Many of the current complaints have been about the inability to differentiate the classes. That criticism is not going to fade from a defense of the current system. The game HAS to change or it will fail.

I don't want this game to fail, but I do realize that the current system of F2P will not support this game or bring in new customers. If you think that you can make a PLD out of your GLD, then all props to you, but it isn't cutting it for the people who quit the game, and it certainly isn't attracting new players.

If you REALLY love this game and want it to succeed, then please don't defend the original systems, as much as you may like them, because they will end this game quickly.

The armory system is a great idea, but it does not allow the building blocks to create your own 'jobs', it needs to change. Add a class/job system on TOP of the already existing system, and you instantly create a few things:
1)The 'Final Fantasy' feel
2)A goal for low-mid level players to aim for
3)Class differential that allows players to feel unique in a group

Cairdeas, I think you are wrong in your statements, well-intentioned, but wrong. You CANNOT make a 'white or red mage by pulling the right skills from here and there'... you just make a 'grey mage'. Grey is mushy and boring. 'Any class can be any job'... that is gray. That is what the majority of MMO gamers have decided. Unfortunately, there is no MMO without a large player base.

I love the FF franchise and would like nothing less than to see FFXIV have a rich and fulfilling future. There needs to be change for that to happen.

I don't think this thread is a defence of the original system so much as an explanation of the underlying concept. Anyway, I think both systems can coexist, the armory system and a job system.

The Original Poster mentioned being able to assign/attach a name to your load-out. Now, suppose that if in attaching this name, your character received a boost to relevant abilities/stats and at the same time, received a decrease to certain other abilities. If this was the case, then you would become a specilist in that role, and you COULD become classic Final Fantasy staple job you always dreamed of playing.

For example, say you wanted to play the role of a Black Mage in a party. You've levelled up both mages to a certain level and have enough skills to support this role. You then opt to assign yourself the title "Black Mage", and with that comes a boost to your offensive spells. But at the same time it decreases the effectiveness of your defensive and healing spells. So, in effect, you're a very good DD, but a bad healer. Hence BLM.

All the armory system ever needed was extra support from the development team.

With the upcoming Role-specific gear (see the BLM gear sketches in the latest producers letter), then such a system could be even more viable by allowing us as players to demonstrate our roles in the gear that we wear.

With the changes outlined above, you could have the best of both worlds: freedom to play as you wish, role differentiation, classic final fantasy atmosphere, and endless possibilities.

[Cairdeas]

Thanks Gifthorse

[Rustyhagun]

The OP has some neat ideas, if SE were planning to simply work out the kinks, but they are not. They are scrapping the system we are playing with now, you don't believe me? Then we will see. This is the only way to attract the old players and the new ones, for them to hear "We have put in a totally, different and new battle system, traditional FF classes are back!" People hearing this will come back in droves. The old players that left know how the system plays like now, if Yoshi was just to tinker around with what we have now, it wouldn't change any ones feeling for the game. Plus that was Tanaka's vision. I'm sure Yoshi wants his vision to come to fruition, or they would have been no point to remove Tanaka from "office".

Like I have said in the past, the armory system just make everyone a hybrid type RedMage or DrkKnight, but without the cool factor, and at level cap everyone would have the same hybrid abilities equip, but each will be holding a different weapon. 'yawns' boring.

........... the idea is just plan silly for a Final Fantasy, when you already have classes in the lore that do that..eg DrkKnight takes some influence from blkmage/warrior, Paladin takes some influence from whtmage/warrior, Redmage takes some influence from blkmage/whtmage/warrior..etc <- these are your hybrid jobs, they borrow from a fighting/casting style of another class.

While Your pure classes like...eg WhtMage, Blkmage, Warrior/Gladiator/Soldier, Monk, Samurai, Ninja, Thief, Dragoon, Summoner, Geomancer, Beastmaster/Animalist,..etc that only specialize in one style of fighting/casting technique, they borrow from no one.

Yoshi-p knows this, which is why the battle system(which includes the armor we put on) is getting a total face lift. If this wasn't case, the dev team would have simple added some skills hear and there for the various jobs and said "Ok people, play with these new additions for the class and enjoy"....'yawn' boring, no change has happened.

From the concept art he gave us, I know this game is going back to tradition FF1 & 3 type job situations, which would put this game back on track.

Which is why I am not even playing this game anymore until the big changes hit. Because a lot of us are going to be doing this over(in regards to class picks and re-stating), and might want to start a new class to learn it progression properly, because we won't have the option to swap abilities from other jobs anymore, if anything we will have a huge list of abilities 30+ and lets say, a Dragoon would be able to pick from that pool of abilities and place them in the amount of slots we have available to us(think of GW or DCUO, as reference to what I'm trying to get across). The only thing that will cross over from the current system is assigning stats, but now we will have a separate stat sheet for each job class to assign points for, so no more re-assigning point every 2 hrs because you want to play a different role.

[Rebellion]

Great explanation on this. You have won me over on this 1, lets see how SE handles this or responds

[SnowTiger]

Sounds great... Now we just need you fine developer folks to make it happen.

[Lacard]

I really liked the way you phrased all this. It makes a lot of sense. I for one have also "created" a paladin by leveling the needed classes.

[Cairdeas]

I really liked the way you phrased all this. It makes a lot of sense. I for one have also "created" a paladin by leveling the needed classes.

All we need now is a system that rewards us for doing so by calling us Paladins in game that doesn't destroy the current open system

[Shazaam]

What we need are actual Paladins, and not a new title.