Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Havenchild]

If damage is aqualized or higher on summoner and blm then blm goes extinct. Why is that? the reasons I listed eariler, why bring a blm when their aoe is simply overkill anyway? and if smns bring higher single target the 2nd highest aoe, all while being the 2nd and arguable first highest dps uptime, then why bother with the blm? blm simply needs to do mroe damage in the fairness of balance. Hell smn aoe is enough for all the turns and with a higher single target out put the kill time should be faster than with a blm, and that is what matters, not inflated flare numbers.

You are very wrong. Buffing a SMNs single target does not invalidate BLM in any way. It's simply brings it even in the playing field. The bias you seem to repeatedly present is clouding your judgement on what SMN needs. Tell me, were you also against a buff in SCOB for BLM? I ran with several BLMs in both in static/sells and many I knew crushed it on SCOB to the point where I felt Potency was not the direct solution in the long haul for that class. Does that mean we should ignore the glaring issues that plagued the class regarding the excessive movement because the fights could be cleared?


Btw there are ways to control the increase in SMN damage that are not hard to balance appropriately or destroy where BLM is right now in the end game environment.

If it's Potency, Garuda, Fester and Enkindle are safe bets.

Fixing the MP problem also would add DPS.

I have no clue where you are getting sastasha from, no where, anywhere have I implied poetics dungeons as imperative to balance. Maybe you should read the thread before you go about throwing insults?

Nor did I imply you said as such, but your rational on proper balance adjustments seems to be lacking, which is why I gave an example you may understand to better articulate the point you couldn't be more wrong on your way of thinking.

[Xisin]

in SCOB they were relatively equal in dps, we all saw what happened there, in BCOB smn was stronger, people were dumb about it though.

[Viridiana]

to my knowledge the devs have never adjusted to difficulty other than release nin. (was the opposite, they didn't think players could handle mudras as well as they did, which resulted in the nerf of nin.) DRG was fine when fcob hit, we cleared 13 with a drg in the pt before they were buffed.

How much i120/i130 gear did that take? Can guarantee it was more than it took on other classes.

Even so, this isn't really new information. Everyone knew DRG would be fine as soon as people started gearing them. The problem for DRG was that no one wanted them for cutting edge progression, because it took more gear to get them to work, by which time a different job could have done better. For reference, NIN cleared T13 before DRG did.

This is the same type of problem SMN has in FCOB. Everyone knows that once they have better gear they'll do just fine, but there's no reason to take one that doesn't already have that gear when you could take a BLM instead and progress faster. And even once you have that gear, there's still no real reason to take SMN over BLM, because the BLM does better damage anyway.

[ChriZirhC]

I see summoners parsing 500++ in t13. its still a powerful job. Yes there is the mp issue, but which can be easily fixed by a skilled bard. If there's anything that needs a break is us bards. Having 1WD less on weapon upgrade vs everyone this time and now we have another caster to watch mp for. We're so abused. lol xD

[ViviAnimus]

There is not one Summoner parse I have seen of T13 that ended with 500+. To come back to the question what gear I used for the parse, it isn't optimal for SMN, it had like 555 SS because of the weapon, same for BLM. Also around 530 CRT, though. And I am afraid I am doing nothing wrong at all. I don't let my dots fall off, don't let Shadow Flare fall off, use Rouse and Spur when they're up.. I'll record and show you later

[Havenchild]

There is not one Summoner parse I have seen of T13 that ended with 500+.

Well if were talking unmerged DPS, I haven't seen a SMN go over 500, highest recorded I've seen was like 480ish, with a Ninja in the party.

If were talking merged however, it's definitely possible.

[ViviAnimus]

Yes, unmerged is possible, I agree. Although unmerged I get around 510-530 on my BLM and Summoner should have an advantage in that fight. So it does show something, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giL9WX_mLzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM9OV8lF4q0

On this parse, BLM scores around 30 DPS more than SMN, do take into account the following:

Fireweaving was unsuccesful most of the time
BLM parse is 30% longer than SMN (SMN went Oom)
SMN Parse does not have energy drain (which is a DPS loss overall because I wanted full DPS run)
SMN DPS would continue to drop bit by bit
ST DPS BLM is supreme and even more so with Selene

[Judge_Xero]

Yes, unmerged is possible, I agree. Although unmerged I get around 510-530 on my BLM and Summoner should have an advantage in that fight. So it does show something, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giL9WX_mLzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM9OV8lF4q0

On this parse, BLM scores around 30 DPS more than SMN, do take into account the following:

Fireweaving was unsuccesful most of the time
BLM parse is 30% longer than SMN (SMN went Oom)
SMN Parse does not have energy drain (which is a DPS loss overall because I wanted full DPS run)
SMN DPS would continue to drop bit by bit
ST DPS BLM is supreme and even more so with Selene

Nice vid. You should give Ifrit a try and stand closer to get all those book hits in.

[scarebearz]

snip

On a single target stationary fight I'd expect BLM to do more.

[Tex_Mex]

The good thing is that Yoshi P has already stated that SMN would be getting adusted before 3.0.

See, the squeaky wheel always gets the grease

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/124...=1#post6333229