Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[ViviAnimus]

Your first sentence does not make any sense. The comparisons are between top SMN DPS and BLM DPS per turn in Final Coil. In every turn, BLM wins over SMN, even though three out of 4 turns should be beneficial for SMN!
The best example is T11, which is a very movement heavy fight and SINGLE target. Yet BLM has around 40 DPS higher on average. Goodie, I wonder what's the matter. Probably those evil parsers.
All you say is speculation. You either come with proof that the parser does not reflect the true nature of SMN DPS and you show how it reflects SMN in a bad or good way (more damage or less).

[scarebearz]

SMN gets a buff and still loads of complaints xD

Some will never be happy ;D

Your quoting DPS pre-buff, so those comparisons mean nothing now.

[Kona_Nightwind]

You have no proof of your claims. Show me proof on how accurate the parses and parsers are. Show me a large enough sample size to be worth anything. A couple of kill vids and some complaining on the forums from average players is no basis for an argument. The only people that have that info is SE and they look at it daily. With how angry you have gotten I must assume this is your first MMO and Ill let you in on a secret, perfect balance is a pipe dream. And in my opinion, someone who has played many MMOs, this is by far the most balanced game I've ever played. The fact that there is no real PvP yet may help. If they do improve PvP, you may want to skip it. I don't want you having a brain aneurysm.

[Xisin]

I said I was done with the thread regardless, i made my points etc. etc. I simply posted on here just to give you a friendly and teasing "I told you so" you smns keep upvoting each other though, cause thats what it is.

On the parser subject while I'm here, sometimes the setting will freak out on my parser and it will rate summoner, along with dragoon lower than what they actually are, I found this out by always comparing the parses with my pt mates. I'm not sure what causes it though. I use ACT like everyone else.

[Shizuna]

I just got done with FCOB as SMN and the only thing that's different is that I rarely go oom, but dps is still about the same so lol. All it was a 5-8 dps increase, so it's really not that significant. There is still that 30-40 dps gap between SMN and BLM.

There is proof of parses being close to accurate and also it may not be a large sample size with what you want. The spreadsheet I've been maintaining still needs more people to contribute their own dps. Regardless, it still has at least 8+ people who have submitted their dps and parser to prove it. You can't exactly find a large sample size of SMN's who actually parse and upload/stream videos cause there are not many SMN's in FCOB compared to every other dps classes.

It may not be much and I have linked the spreadsheet before; here it is: http://goo.gl/kTliGH

[ViviAnimus]

I said I was done with the thread regardless, i made my points etc. etc. I simply posted on here just to give you a friendly and teasing "I told you so" you smns keep upvoting each other though, cause thats what it is.

On the parser subject while I'm here,sometimes the setting will freak out on my parser and it will rate summoner, along with dragoon lower than what they actually are, I found this out by always comparing the parses with my pt mates. I'm not sure what causes it though. I use ACT like everyone else.

I have been parsing for weeks now comparing DPS between SMN and never did the results vary greatly. Never. Also, having a SMN do 400 DPS for example and someone has 410 on another, does not necessarily mean the estimate is automatically 410 and therefore the parser represents the SMN's DPS in question as lower by default. That's just not true.
Kona, again the same nonsense. You are coming with the claim that parsers are not working the way they should. The burden of proof is for you, because you made the claim in the first place that the numbers are not accurate. You still have not proven anything, so I look at it myself and only found topics from over a year ago. So, enlighten us. Has anything been done in the meantime? You can also dribble all you want about SMN having the correct numbers. If you should no emperical evidence of this, then how does it even serve as an argument. Where are these numbers then? Who looks at them? What tools do they use? These are all questions I would like to see answered. Because if the numbers are represented falsly, then SE does have an obligation to set the record straight. They know comparative analysis is done and that's the way it should be. So if our tools do not reflect reality, then there is no way as a community to effectively ask for something. So therefore, either you provide proof or SE. Because if you don't, we work with the tools we have. But I will try and figure it out myself as to how reliable ACT has become recently.

Scarebearz, again, has not really been the most logical of people. Imagine, parses show BLM being a lot behind melee. So, in a liveletter, SE acknowledges there are some problems and in a patch, they decide to buff BLM. How do they do this? They do this by
reducing the cost of Thunder III, allowing you to cast it in your blizzard rotation without any issues. Of course this "buff" wouldn't make sense and reducing Ruin I and II has good effects on SMN, but it doesn't change the DPS gap as it should (based on the emperical evidence we have). Then you would say to SE: "it's nice to be able to cast TIII and it increases our DPS by around 5, but is that really it?". Yes, then you are also an ungrateful little kid. How does this even make sense? Do you not try and think before saying things? Still being behind BLM by quite a bit while BLM has infinite resources, again better burst, ST damage and AoE damage, is completely justified. It's that simple. But apparently, the emperical evidence we have, is all false and needs to be relooked upon without actually telling us how. Alright, that's what we have achieved then.

May I also express the humour I see in all of this since you do more DPS (comparative chart) than 80% of SMN with 114 gear and 130 weapon? May I find that funny that people who see that find that rather strange? That you do 50 DPS more on T10 than the higher ranked SMN with 10 lower item levels. That you are 6 DPS lower than T11's highest with 16 item levels lower and a weapon that's not as good? That you do 15 more DPS than SMN's top 12 parse with 15 item levels lower and that you are again only 15 DPS lower than T13's highest parse with a lower ilvl weapon and 16 item levels lower? But nothing is wrong because the parser man, the parser. I am going to say it once more. You people are full of it (both of you). I, who main a BLM, can see that based on the emperical evidence we have, BLM is outdoing SMN easily and that giving SMN better recource management when BLM has the best resources of them all, does not suffice. There.

[Sanguisio]

oMG let this thread die.

SMNs need a genuine buff to the potency of spells somehow without affecting SCH.

You can argue SMNs should be better in some turns, but generally it doesnt matter because how this game is designed to reward burst damage and SMN doesn't have that with out sacrificing DPS.

[Sen_Terrechant]

I have been parsing for weeks now comparing DPS between SMN and never did the results vary greatly. Never. Also, having a SMN do 400 DPS for example and someone has 410 on another, does not necessarily mean the estimate is automatically 410 and therefore the parser represents the SMN's DPS in question as lower by default. That's just not true.
Kona, again the same nonsense. You are coming with the claim that parsers are not working the way they should. The burden of proof is for you, because you made the claim in the first place that the numbers are not accurate. You still have not proven anything, so I look at it myself and only found topics from over a year ago. So, enlighten us. Has anything been done in the meantime? You can also dribble all you want about SMN having the correct numbers. If you should no emperical evidence of this, then how does it even serve as an argument. Where are these numbers then? Who looks at them? What tools do they use? These are all questions I would like to see answered. Because if the numbers are represented falsly, then SE does have an obligation to set the record straight. They know comparative analysis is done and that's the way it should be. So if our tools do not reflect reality, then there is no way as a community to effectively ask for something. So therefore, either you provide proof or SE. Because if you don't, we work with the tools we have. But I will try and figure it out myself as to how reliable ACT has become recently.

Scarebearz, again, has not really been the most logical of people. Imagine, parses show BLM being a lot behind melee. So, in a liveletter, SE acknowledges there are some problems and in a patch, they decide to buff BLM. How do they do this? They do this by
reducing the cost of Thunder III, allowing you to cast it in your blizzard rotation without any issues. Of course this "buff" wouldn't make sense and reducing Ruin I and II has good effects on SMN, but it doesn't change the DPS gap as it should (based on the emperical evidence we have). Then you would say to SE: "it's nice to be able to cast TIII and it increases our DPS by around 5, but is that really it?". Yes, then you are also an ungrateful little kid. How does this even make sense? Do you not try and think before saying things? Still being behind BLM by quite a bit while BLM has infinite resources, again better burst, ST damage and AoE damage, is completely justified. It's that simple. But apparently, the emperical evidence we have, is all false and needs to be relooked upon without actually telling us how. Alright, that's what we have achieved then.

May I also express the humour I see in all of this since you do more DPS (comparative chart) than 80% of SMN with 114 gear and 130 weapon? May I find that funny that people who see that find that rather strange? That you do 50 DPS more on T10 than the higher ranked SMN with 10 lower item levels. That you are 6 DPS lower than T11's highest with 16 item levels lower and a weapon that's not as good? That you do 15 more DPS than SMN's top 12 parse with 15 item levels lower and that you are again only 15 DPS lower than T13's highest parse with a lower ilvl weapon and 16 item levels lower? But nothing is wrong because the parser man, the parser. I am going to say it once more. You people are full of it (both of you). I, who main a BLM, can see that based on the emperical evidence we have, BLM is outdoing SMN easily and that giving SMN better recource management when BLM has the best resources of them all, does not suffice. There.

This right here

[Judge_Xero]

SMNs need a genuine buff to the potency of spells somehow without affecting SCH.

You can argue SMNs should be better in some turns, but generally it doesnt matter because how this game is designed to reward burst damage and SMN doesn't have that with out sacrificing DPS.

Exactly. That's why it should just have much better single target, that way it's worth it for a much more "bursty" class to swap targets in those instances, while SMN can just toss a Bio or something for a little extra. VS just bring BLM because they outperform SMN in all regards, that way melee can move as little as possible.

BLM = ST, AOE, Burst, infinite MP.

Now we have the new updated SMN = Pet to help soak some mechanics, Battle Raise. Nothing has really changed.

I wont even say that SMN is more mobile, because BLM with >2.3GCD can cast between any set of mechanics. If a SMN stacks that much spell speed they are just gimping themselves overall. Yes SMN can keep their Dots up for mechanics if they clip them before hand at a DPS loss, and the MP fix makes Ruin II more reasonable, BLM can keep up their full rotation and even more so with Selene.

We need

SMN = Amazing ST, Decent AOE, Very Low Burst, Reasonable MP Resources (Energy Drain only if you have to Raise someone. 10 Mins Full DPS rotation OOM)
BLM = Ok ST, Extreme AOE, High Burst, Infinite MP

Sure SMN can burst really high on the opener, but that is different than the ability to burst something down mid fight. It's all about how fast you reach that burst damage.

[Dyvid]

Here is the bottom line. The main complaint was OOM in FCOB and if the ruin mp change fixes this problem then subject is closed. If you are expecting the devs to buff SMN's dps based on communities complaints using 3rd party parses as a base line, not going to happen. You know they have their own parses and see actually dps data. Further more their base line is if the content can be completed with SMN, not whether or not SMN does more damage than BLM.