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  1. #1
    Player
    SomnusNemoris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    21
    Character
    Somnus Nemoris
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Weaver Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by ShinryuReishiki View Post
    Comparing the DPS charts is a bit silly; I just see it as something fun to do. SMN's numbers depend far too much on the performance of the others in the party. If adds die slower, that's more DPS for the SMN. More Bennus, more DPS for the SMN. If someone dies, more DPS for the SMN. This is true for BLM as well, but the impact is greater on SMN given the reliance on DoTs. I feel like T11 is the only one where you could have a fair comparison between jobs.

    I'm sure Rational Gaze is pretty good, but look at the data on that chart. In every turn, his BLM and BRD died once. That makes it a lot easier to reach higher numbers. My best T13 for example was because the BLM died; I've yet to come close to that on a clean run.
    Comparing DPS charts in silly in what way? Black Mage numbers also depend greatly on the performance of the team. If adds die slower = more time to flare. If more benus are alive = more targets to AoE. You do realise one extra flare on two targets = from 3-5k damage, right? Is the SCH using Selene?To make the claim that it is excessively more true for SMN to perform well in the expense of others is ludicrous and simply untrue. If you would have died instead of the BLM, his numbers would also be higher, probably a lot higher since it means an extra flare on the adds for example? You also have no data as to when the BRD and BLM died and what the circumstances are.
    Another argument is that yours actually works against you. So basically, you base your argument on the uncertain premisse that these players died on important times in order that the SMN DPS is increased (e.g adds die slower = more uptime on dots), yet it is still miles behind BLM DPS. In other words, SMN DPS is usually lower in perfect scenario runs whereas a BLM will not really suffer that greatly. Seems to me that this is an argument to use for a SMN buff rather than anything else.
    In simple terminology:

    You make the claim that Rational Gaze his numbers are a lot easier to reach because of people dying
    So we can conclude out of this that in a perfect scenario, his DPS would be less
    In a perfect scenario SMN falls even further behind BLM.
    According to you, SMN benefits more greatly from people dying
    Therefore the discrepancy is even larger at the expense of the SMN dying in BLM's favour.

    I have seen plently of BLM videos where people did not die where they easily outperform Rational Gaze. So how does your comment even work?
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    Last edited by SomnusNemoris; 02-16-2015 at 09:38 AM.

  2. #2
    Player

    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    Lots of talk about "Rational Gaze"
    If you check this guys posts on Reddit, you'll see that he pretty much says people are being over-dramatic about the SMN issues and that the gap between BLM and SMN when equally skilled is not that huge. He also says his dps are "more or less in line with the blms in my fc".

    He does however think SMN should have a slightly higher potential dps than BLM.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Sunako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,439
    Character
    Sunako Kirishiki
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    I have seen plently of BLM videos where people did not die where they easily outperform Rational Gaze. So how does your comment even work?
    Where did you watch these videos? Can you link some t13 fight where blm can do over 500 dps?
    (0)

  4. #4
    Player
    ShinryuReishiki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    184
    Character
    Shinryu Reishiki
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    Comparing DPS charts in silly in what way?
    It's silly to compare them because there are far too many variables. Strategy, party composition, mechanics, etc. all play a large role in how the numbers will turn out. Most groups will favor a faster clear over letting one person have slightly higher numbers. You can't just look at one person's performance out a group of 8 and deem them any more/less skilled than a person in another group.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    Black Mage numbers also depend greatly on the performance of the team.
    I agree; I never said this was not the case. I only said that a SMN will lose more than a BLM will. Regardless of how fast an enemy dies, a BLM is getting the full damage from its spell. A SMN is relying on DoTs; if the enemy dies before you get the full worth of that spell, it's simply lost. If I cast Bio 2, Miasma, Bio on a target and it dies 15s later, 320 potency just goes poof; that's more potency than an AF3 Fire. The only way a BLM would lose DPS in a similar fashion is if the target were to die mid-cast, but SMN is also vulnerable to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    You also have no data as to when the BRD and BLM died and what the circumstances are.
    While it would be nice to know the circumstances, the numbers are low enough to paint a picture. A BLM doesn't suddenly drop to i110 numbers by dying at the last moment of 13+ minute fight, for example.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    So we can conclude out of this that in a perfect scenario, his DPS would be less
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    In a perfect scenario SMN falls even further behind BLM.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    According to you, SMN benefits more greatly from people dying
    The point was not that people dying is a DPS increase. The point was that as party DPS increases, a SMN's DPS will decrease. Dying is simply a means of countering that effect in a better geared group.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    Therefore the discrepancy is even larger at the expense of the SMN dying in BLM's favour.
    Probably, but that's not the situation we have here.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomnusNemoris View Post
    I have seen plently of BLM videos where people did not die where they easily outperform Rational Gaze. So how does your comment even work?
    You seem to think I'm arguing about the gap between SMN and BLM? My argument is that using Rational Gaze's numbers as some sort of metric for what SMN can or cannot do is foolish. You keep dropping that name as if it means something, but due to the deaths in the encounters, those numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. If you have to use someone off that chart to compare, you'd be better off using Avalen Koma or Alethea Wyste.
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