Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[YanderePrincess]

That's what I'm talking about players in game saying Summoner is harder than White Mage because the Summoner is the hardest DPS in game and has a difficult time keeping up DPS.

WHM is easy . . .

[ViviAnimus]

Healing seems easier because of less skills you actually use to heal, especially on a White Mage. But in my experience, from both DPSing T10-13 and healing T10-13, healing is a lot more intense. On SCH it's probably a bit harder than on WHM as well. Healing is not required a set rotation which you repeat over and over again. It's more of reactive and in SCH's case preemitive. As SCH, to play effectively, you need to know the whole fight by heart in order to know when to heal, DPS, mitiaged damage and so on.

[YanderePrincess]

Healing seems easier because of less skills you actually use to heal, especially on a White Mage. But in my experience, from both DPSing T10-13 and healing T10-13, healing is a lot more intense

My experience doesn't go as high in the turns as yours, but my own from dpsing in Second Coil and Healing in Second Coil says that DPS is more intense. But this might also be something that's at least in part subjective. And that's with Scholar having been my primary healing class in coil. But I've been a healer as one of my main roles for over 10 years, so maybe I'm just really acclimated to it?

[Akiza]

Summoner is the hardest DPS to play even if played perfectly they have the lowest DPS because they can't sustain damage after 4 min. Melee is hard but they have high DPS while Summoners are punished for playing to perfection.

[ViviAnimus]

Summoners aren't being punished for playing to perfection, they aren't rewarded enough in terms of DPS.

[Wizarus]

I know people wont like this opinion, but SMN needs to be reworked. SCH combat is way better since they have something else do while Dots are applied. Instead SMN applies Dots and have nothing else to do besides lolruin? SMN needs something else to do while Dots are applied, and it just screams Support Class to me. Maybe have the pet do something like a party wide buff that you have to manage instead of being a glorified Dot. Maybe give SMN skills like Bards that cut your DPS, so you dance between Dot applying and supporting. I dont know, but something has to be done, because from overdosed ACC to useless SS, to horrble DPS scaling, to MP problems, SMN combat is pretty much broken right now.

[ViviAnimus]

Summoners have to do during dots:

Ruin
Fester
Rouse
Spur
Enkindle
Shadow Flare,
Poison Pot
Bane
Micromanagement of pet (aoe) or contagion, movement of the pet ..., HP of the pet, constantly pressing obey if you change target
I might be missing a few things, but Summoner has plenty to do

Summoner should not be a support class since that is the Bard's job. All that Summoner needs is a small buff in potency (Fester must hit a lot harder) and an MP fix.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Summoners have to do during dots:

Ruin
Fester
Rouse
Spur
Enkindle
Shadow Flare,
Poison Pot
Bane
Micromanagement of pet (aoe) or contagion, movement of the pet ..., HP of the pet, constantly pressing obey if you change target
I might be missing a few things, but Summoner has plenty to do

Summoner should not be a support class since that is the Bard's job. All that Summoner needs is a small buff in potency (Fester must hit a lot harder) and an MP fix. No offence, though, but since you apparently don't realise what SMN actually have to do, your idea of support should already be dismissed

Right, so you've been overglorifying Summoner for the past couple of pages now. Don't make it sound like summoners have it exceptionally harder than other classes, even tanks.

Most of the things you've mentioned in there are on off GCD ability-tier that you only use once every one, two or even five minutes: Rouse (60s), Enkindle (300s). Or even very situational: Bane. The are a few things you are consistently doing as summoner: Monitoring your DoTs and monitoring the CDs. If we were to seperate them, everyone's job would suddenly look stupidly complicated:
Bards have
-5 buffs to monitor
-3 DoTs to monitor (includes flaming arrow)
-Straight arrow to maintain
-Procs to maintain
-2 off GCD abilities to use
-One of them requiring close range thus planning whether it's a good time to move in or not
-monitor healer MPs
-monitor their own MP
-Plan whether foe would be worth singing at that point or not
-calculate in their heads when they need to paeon early or not
-mind their positioning considering they're the most mobile and people expect them to move first
-monitor their TP & invigorate

Monks have:
-2 CDs to watch (3 if you include Perfect Balance outside openers)
-3 off GCD damage abilities (4 including mercy stroke)
-Whether they are allowed to stun or not
-keep their stacks up
-keep dragon kick up
-keep twin snakes up
-keep two dots up (even three for those fracture fanatics)
-plan positioning (flanks/back aren't always available, depending on content)
-monitor their TP & invigorate
-use mantra if it's useful anywhere

And the lists can keep going ooon and oooon and oooooon. But no class is nowhere as complicated as any list of any size can make it. With enough practice muscle memory, habits and bias kicks in. The same applies to summoner.

Now I'm not denying they are in dire need of a buff or are hard or easy to play. But they require something far more fundamental: Change pet interactions*. Summoners hardly do anything with their pets. Microing? Please. The amount of microing involves pressing a button on the pet bar once or twice every minute. Or even not at all if you're using the Ifrit-egi. Rouse and Spur? That has barely anything to do with micro-managing pets. It's basically giving them some steroids and you mind your own business again. It's on the same tier as Raging Strikes: Use it ASAP or save it for strategic moments. So what do I think they need: A class overhaul that actually makes them feel more of a pet-based class rather than a caster that comes with a pet that does it's own thing.

*Submitted a suggestion ticket a week or two ago about this. I still have a copy of it if anyone's interested in it's content.

[Wizarus]

Summoners have to do during dots:

Ruin
Fester
Rouse
Spur
Enkindle
Shadow Flare,
Poison Pot
Bane
Micromanagement of pet (aoe) or contagion, movement of the pet ..., HP of the pet, constantly pressing obey if you change target
I might be missing a few things, but Summoner has plenty to do

Summoner should not be a support class since that is the Bard's job. All that Summoner needs is a small buff in potency (Fester must hit a lot harder) and an MP fix. No offence, though, but since you apparently don't realise what SMN actually have to do, your idea of support should already be dismissed

With all due respect thats not really doing much at all. Fester is pressing a button 12 seconds and then wating for a 1 minute cooldown to expire. Rouse is pressing a a button every 60 seconds, Spur 120, and youll be lucky to see Enkindle more than twice if that. Its not doing much of anything while Dots are applied. Shadowflare and Poison Pot are a part of Dot rotation. Don't know why you metioned Bane.

Contagion is used right at the end of Dot rotation, and if anything its part of what Im talkng about since you still are doing nothing but Ruin while Dot timers are extended. The only real thing you do is micro pet so it doesnt die to AOE, but those instances are so specific because 1) Most people use Garuda in those situations, and 2) Garuda will rarely ever be those types of situation, and if she is, you should not have to do more than press heel.

The fact that Ruin + auto attack makes up over 20% of your DPS, means that at least 20% of the time you're doing nothing but waiting until Dots are up and this isn't factoring your pet doing doing 25~30% of your DPS permanantly, with next to no effort on your part.

And this is kinda off topic but there is only one class which is needed in all noteworthy content, that is Bard. It shouldnt be their job to be the only support class in the game needed in every content, it's a design flaw.

[Akiza]

If every job had support abilities than Bard wouldn't be needed. I'm pretty sure Machinist will be the new support job to go along with Bard while SE re balance the Summoner Pets in 3.0