Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Dyvid]

The amount of input and skill you need to perform on a Summoner is a lot higher than it is on melee and Black Mage at the moment. Not that SMN is a difficult class, it's just hard to get high numbers. It has to be absolutely perfect.

That's by design. From the start SE wanted to make certain jobs more difficult to get maximum performance similar to MNK vs DRG. You say that BLM is better than SMN in all aspects but maybe the SMN you're judging against was subpar therefore had a weaker output. Also SE has confirmed SMN has a MP issues in FCoB, not that they are weaker than other classes.

[ShinryuReishiki]

That's by design. From the start SE wanted to make certain jobs more difficult to get maximum performance similar to MNK vs DRG. You say that BLM is better than SMN in all aspects but maybe the SMN you're judging against was subpar therefore had a weaker output. Also SE has confirmed SMN has a MP issues in FCoB, not that they are weaker than other classes.

MP is the main issue. It takes away the one utility SMN has over other DPS roles as well as hinders its DPS. Fix MP and SMN becomes more considerable.

It will still be lower than BLM potential in DPS, but having a usable Raise may be a worthwhile trade-off. Even groups that have everything on farm make silly mistakes. As it is now, if someone goofs...
"Shin, can you get him up?"
*looks at MP*
"Uh... Nope."

[Dyvid]

MP is the main issue. It takes away the one utility SMN has over other DPS roles as well as hinders its DPS. Fix MP and SMN becomes more considerable.

It will still be lower than BLM potential in DPS, but having a usable Raise may be a worthwhile trade-off. Even groups that have everything on farm make silly mistakes. As it is now, if someone goofs...
"Shin, can you get him up?"
*looks at MP*
"Uh... Nope."

Honestly though we'll never have all jobs equal in terms of dps output because parsers won't let us. I say as long as the difference is within 5% to 10% it's okay. Problems really start when it gets into the 10% to 25% realm where bad things start happening. Also as far as I'm concerned as long as the group is having fun and you get wins, does it really matter your dps is slightly lower than your BLM buddy? Also those combat raises came in handy during my Odin fight. I told the healers to focus on keep us alive and I'll get the dps that fall while my DoTs do the dpsing.

[Dyvid]

Problems really start when it gets into the 10% to 25% realm where bad things start happening.

Also, in theory, BLM does around 12% more damage.

Then I guess we have a problem huh.

snip

There is no argument to be made unless you are making one. They wanted certain jobs to be more difficult to master than other to provide players an alternative in not only style but challenge. And yea, there is always going to be a minor DPS gap between MNK, DRG, NIN, BRD, BLM, SMN, and soon to be MAC. That's a fact in MMOs that people don't understand. Again, also long as it is minor degrees between the six you shouldn't have the things FFXI did like penta spam DRG, RNG only, or BLM burn parties. That's what balance is.

As for the FCoB, the mana issue is being worked and doesn't mean SMN is gimped in other content like the original content of this post suggest. The fact that anyone says SMN dps sucks in general only hurts the job and the players that enjoy it. Any career SMN knows this mind set isn't true.

[Havenchild]

That's by design. From the start SE wanted to make certain jobs more difficult to get maximum performance similar to MNK vs DRG. You say that BLM is better than SMN in all aspects but maybe the SMN you're judging against was subpar therefore had a weaker output. Also SE has confirmed SMN has a MP issues in FCoB, not that they are weaker than other classes.

I don't think you realize how weak this argument is. There is a standard of SMNs that have to go quite above and beyond normal gameplay, including myself to achieve these high numbers and quite frankly it is most definitely imbalanced vs. BLM. The effort I have to go through to achieve the decent numbers I pull, is very high where the BLM I party with while he plays very good as well, is surpassing me with relative ease in EVERY environment.

Why were DRGS buffed exactly? Simple, to compete with Monks and Ninjas that were taking over the meta in the raiding environment. Not to mention the issue that forced SE's hand (imo), of all the magic based mechanics destroying DRGs.

SMN needs an adjustment to ease it or reward it. It is quite possibly the hardest class to play and maximize on versus any other class. To then go through all that work and still be lower then every other DPS outside of a BRD (playing songs mind you) is really really bad, because you basically kill the class by it being unused. Some of the best SMNs even on these forums, generally agree something needs to be adjusted to ease the DPS discrepancy. They tend to also post more subtle QoL changes which can affect the playstyle to make it more MP sustainable. Do not feel crappy SMNs are suggesting for buffs because it is generally anything but that. THe raiding enviorment mainly FCOB is hurting SMNs. If you have to jump through hoops and ladders to keep up with the rest of the classes that dont have to do that only to fall short of other classes anyway. That is a problem that needs addressing.

Either the class needs to be rewarded for putting in all that extra effort, or it needs to be MP solvent to properly utilize all it's tools to DPS. We should be able to DPS on this class, not have to sacrifice our DPS, which is already in rapid decline throughout a fight, just to keep going. It' makes no sense to contribute to the negative trend that is SMN DPS by utilizing a tool that is supposed to "help us" when it does anything but.

Mind you I'd llike to stress the point that recently they acknowledged an MP imbalance to actions vs other classes issue, which means yes it IS an actual problem.

[Hiruke]

From the start SE wanted to make certain jobs more difficult to get maximum performance similar to MNK vs DRG.

To begin with, this is poor design, and has since been corrected after the introduction of NIN (though they should have corrected it sooner). Also, in the case of MNK v DRG, MNK was the more complicated role and also the one with a higher dps ceiling. In this case, SMN is the more complicated role while BLM is the one with the higher dps ceiling. So, how can you stand behind this as an argument, since it's been nullified on both fronts?

You say that BLM is better than SMN in all aspects but maybe the SMN you're judging against was subpar therefore had a weaker output.

Are you seriously arguing faulty premise? A SMN doesn't become "top dps" because the DRG, MNK, and BLM in your PT are awful at their jobs and doing 200-300 less dps than they should. People are saying SMN is lowest dps because of math, not because of player skill/individual performance.

Also SE has confirmed SMN has a MP issues in FCoB, not that they are weaker than other classes.

If SE isn't aware there's a huge imbalance there similar to MNK v DRG, I don't know what to say. SMN has to manage their pet, manage their mp, keep 4-5 different DoTs rolling, use multiple off GCD abilities wedged in-between instant casts (of which you only instant cast Bio, Miasma II, Ruin II, and Swiftcasted Shadowflare), making you have to really plan out what you're doing and execute at a high level. Honestly, the demands made of SMN don't have a good analogue with any other job in the game, and they are rewarded for their role complexity by being the lowest dps in the game? lol gg