Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Sanguisio]

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

Now they can but before it would have been silly to have a BLM kite as you have to spend time out of range of the boss and adds at times which results in a DPS loss a SMN still has DOTs ticking, can place and "bind" the target in place.

Its one of those you can cut a steak with a spoon but a knife would be better scenarios

[point09micron]

Once again: a list of ways one class supports the party should not include abilities from other classes. I don't see how this isn't clear.

[Sanguisio]

You both are correctish, moreso point09.

E4AE is regardless beneficial as they is no CD debuff
But virus I would argue isnt that great on blm due to a few things
-most mass AOEs e.g gigaflare, nerve gas, hellfire etc are magic damage and the BLM virus does nothing to this.
-Also while it does help with STR debuffing most BLMs use it at the wrong times which means antivirus is up when a SMN/SCH need to debuff properly. It's useful but not amazing.



But when discussing jobs you need to make it job specific, no point me saying CNJ is better than WHM because its 9 utilites which are half useful y'know.

BLM:
manaward - very meh only reduces damage by negligible amount, by comparison second wind destroys it and it is only applied to the BLM so not a party utility.
Manawall - alot better then manaward as you can use it for earthshockers etc but same as above helpful but any other dps can deal with the mechanics with heals or good timing e.g. titan LB on adds etc
apoc - amazing utility and should be used more often.
Lethargy - works on little where it matters usually overshadowed by miasma
Freeze - same as above shadowed by tri disaster, plus it will mess up fire/ice rotation where you should only have time to apply thunder then be back on fire so very rarely viable.
Sleep - amazing utility pvp, speedruns, etc but end game useless.

SMN
Virus - raid wide damage reduction of all types of damage.
E4AE - same as above and can be triggered on limitless mobs while it is up.
Resurrection - while you shouldnt be doing it at all, with ballad it is very viable raid utility and something no other class can do. There is a reason skills like auto life, life, raise etc are fundamental in RPGs and the fact a dps can do it is great. However without someone dying it is as useful as zilch, so it is situation-reliant.
Miasma - see above, also if they bring out mobs who regen as a mechanic, not the when I eat I get full health nonsense it will be even better.
SF - very minimal not worth mentioning.
Stun - its a stun nothing more needed.
Blind - its a blind nothing more needed.
knock back- " "
DPS without having to target - on fights like levi, t5 etc the DOTs still tick when you are unable to target them.
Tri - Disaster - the more useful of the useless binds

[point09micron]

Have to disagree with your statement on Manaward. When it's up, I take 0 damage from Diamond Dust pretty frequently. Same with Twintania's super (Aetheric Profusion or something). Assuming the other conditions are met anyways (adds down, standing in necklace).

[Sanguisio]

snip

ok thats cool, but 7/8 people still take damage, so you have just taken 0 damage in the event AOE healing will still be necessary. What is the benefit ? what is the benefit to the raid group?
If we were talking about solo utility, BLM would win with self damage mitigation but I was under the impression we were talking about raid utility.
But then again if we want to talk about solo utility titan egi will beat out every single solo utility there is in the game par SCH, ACN.

[Cerick]

Would adding a 5% mana regen skill that ticks for 15 seconds on a 90 second cool down resolve the mana issue? Who cares if this passes over to SCH as well ( in turn you could add 5 mp to the cost of SCH skills to compensate for them having an additional way to regen mana )

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

ok thats cool, but 7/8 people still take damage, so you have just taken 0 damage in the event AOE healing will still be necessary. What is the benefit ? what is the benefit to the raid group?
If we were talking about solo utility, BLM would win with self damage mitigation but I was under the impression we were talking about raid utility.
But then again if we want to talk about solo utility titan egi will beat out every single solo utility there is in the game par SCH, ACN.

At least get your facts right before you make claims. So much misinformation from this and your previous post.

[ViviAnimus]

ok thats cool, but 7/8 people still take damage, so you have just taken 0 damage in the event AOE healing will still be necessary. What is the benefit ? what is the benefit to the raid group?
If we were talking about solo utility, BLM would win with self damage mitigation but I was under the impression we were talking about raid utility.
But then again if we want to talk about solo utility titan egi will beat out every single solo utility there is in the game par SCH, ACN.

The amount of times Manaward saved my ass in T13, though. Also pretty useful on T12 because I switch the flame with a healer. On T10 it's pretty sweet for the charge. T11 for nerve cloud, especially when you fucked up your movement in the last phase. Manaward is pretty sweet to be fair.

So on T10, it's a pretty much safe I will be surviving with manaward
T11 don't need stoneskin for nerve cloud. Don't know if you can stand still in a gas attack and do more DPS - Also rewarding for the raid
T12 very nice that I can use it to mitigate damage, especially when benu's are up. Greatly relieves healers from stress. Also prevented me from dying a couple of times when I wasn't really topped up when Phoenix does his big flame attack in the last phase into dodge bit.
T13. Can take two stacks without having to worry about dying, at all. Pretty sweet. Can use it on megaflare when there is no dome up. Can use it for megaflare during divebombs. It really saved me more times than I can count. Prevention off dying is the best raid utility