Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[ViviAnimus]

Might as well drop it now then cause I very much doubt any info.

I am just hoping the earlier citation is true (about SMN being looked at and changing things pre 3.0) so it would make sense.

[Orrias]

Only a small percentage of players like this current iteration of Summoner.

Which is based on what -- anecdotal evidence..?

Most players quit playing Summoner and moved to other jobs because their more satisfying to play while the Summoner has a boring play style and is hard to play there is just no fun factor in playing Summoner vs Black Mage or White Mage.

If they, (whomever "they" are) did in-fact switch to another Job, then they'd encounter a myriad of issues; latency (i.e. mudras), getting to grips with the new Job(s) tempo of play/ rotation, as well as (possibly) having to level the Class and/or Job up to 50, plus gear it.

Minimizing gearing/ learning difficulties, most of these people you refer to, would most likely have swtiched to BLM, however, the BLM rotation is dull, and the most advanced play revolves around the server ticks of mana and pre-positioning.

Looking at WoW if the Summoner was slot in Crowd Control and enfeebling to increase the DPS of the party maybe it would be good but Summoner just has no place in this game now. If SE based the Summoner off the Elementslist/Shaman and made a better pet system the Summoner would've been great.

"Summoner has no place in this game now"...

Also, SMN is more comparable to WoW's Lock, minus the Drain abilities, which could be something to look at.

Regarding Shammys, they're too much like a nature version of a quasi Red Mage, and the classes mechanics are just too off to fit in with the FF series' Summoner class/job. From my recollection, Shammys had a mana restoring totem, in the past. Having/ using the Egi as an aether/ MP battery is an option. In additon to this, Shammys also have a more elaborate/ advanced version of Aetherflow (i.e. their charge system). I could see a system whereby SCH's keep Aetherflow and SMN's get a modified version of this to help with greater mp returns/ regen, and possibly additional benefits too.

[Brianmj]

Enjoy BLM, OP! The current selection of jobs have enough variety to satisfy anyone should the first love end up not being the one. It great that Square allows multiple jobs on one character - my understanding is that most MMOs don't do this.

We all have our preferences. Should managing timers and a pet ever tickle your fancy in the future, go on and equip that green soul stone. You'll be welcomed back to the club.

[Aikaal]

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If you want to mention if SMN is worth in FCoB right now. You can clear with them. But it's been proven that BLM provide superior DPS, superior support and limitless ressources. Summoners main rivals are Black Mages. They just don't have enough right now.

If you want to compare Summoners to Warlocks from WoW. They are Demonologist Warlocks. They DoT and have a pet that deals a noticeable amount of damage. They have mana issue and a battle res they can't use because of that mana issue. They always have the huge flaw if their pet die, they lose 20% of their DPS. They can res the pet but again, they have mana issues.

They also have a drain ability in the form of energy drain, a weak and poor replacement for fester.

The easy way to see if people play summoner or not is to look in WoD. You'll see most the time 4-5 BLMs. You'll sometimes see 1 summoner... maybe 2.

Even with mudra latency, Ninja deals competitive melee damage. No latency only means your damage is retarded.

[Orrias]

I am just hoping the earlier citation is true (about SMN being looked at and changing things pre 3.0) so it would make sense.

I'm sure the job balance will be greatly adjusted when Heavensward is released, but do you have any jobs that you plan to adjust during the patch 2.5 series?

Y: In particular, I think we need to consider Summoner, but we're still working on the adjustments. Originally, we were planning to add new actions to Summoner with Heavensward to adjust MP consumption. However, since 3.0 is still a ways off, we're thinking about other careful adjustments. As we release each piece of content we see which jobs are too strong or not strong enough. We're also focusing on carefully adjusting things for 3.0, so we'd like to make adjustments as soon as possible, but please wait for a bit longer. (Source: http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/000/991/991969/)

I can't see them radically altering anything. I think modifications to the natural mp ticks during combat, the % of mana returned via Aetherflow/ Energy Drain, or perhaps even lowering some of the mp costs of the SMN's abilites will be as far as they may go, in terms of adjustments.

[ViviAnimus]

If SE can't acknowlegde the obvious DPS gap between casters even without MP issues, then something is wrong with SE and they have no clue as to what they're doing regarding class management. Although they do speak about classes being stronger. The BLM buff was also supposedly small, but it did the job. Now SMN is at hand

[Dyvid]

Snip

Here is some actually data that Akiza doesn't want to give you: Aug 2014 Census.

[Orrias]

If you want to mention if SMN is worth in FCoB right now. You can clear with them. But it's been proven that BLM provide superior DPS, superior support and limitless ressources. Summoners main rivals are Black Mages. They just don't have enough right now.

I main as a SMN for FCoB, and while it bothers me that I can't use INT pots or Shadowflare for the full duration of each fight, I still feel like the ~40 dps difference is acceptable whn comparing BLM's to SMN's in FCoB.

If you want to compare Summoners to Warlocks from WoW. They are Demonologist Warlocks. They DoT and have a pet that deals a noticeable amount of damage. They have mana issue and a battle res they can't use because of that mana issue. They always have the huge flaw if their pet die, they lose 20% of their DPS. They can res the pet but again, they have mana issues.

I skipped with making any direct comparisons to which Lock spec, purely so people don't get any ideas about tranforming into their Egi's. :/

They also have a drain ability in the form of energy drain, a weak and poor replacement for fester.

I was thinking of it more as a replacement for Ruin spam, when mp becomes an issue.

The easy way to see if people play summoner or not is to look in WoD. You'll see most the time 4-5 BLMs. You'll sometimes see 1 summoner... maybe 2.

'Swings and round-abouts'. I go as a WHM for any of the CT's to AoE trash. If people have that same notion in mind, does that mean that SCH's are under utilised elsewhere in the game? I'll play whichever Job best suits the encounter, for whichever role I choose to play (e.g SMN - Levi EX., BLM - Moogle Mog EX., etc.). So, I don't think WoD is really an accurate barometer for gauge Job representation. Only the Dev teams internal stats are going to be useful for that, which we obviously don't have access to. :/

Even with mudra latency, Ninja deals competitive melee damage. No latency only means your damage is retarded.

Sustaining a lag spike during executing a mudra combo is flat-out bad. To what extent it impacts your dps, idk. However, Kassatsu is better utilised for the Raiton/ Shuriken crit, rather than having to 'band-aide' any mudra mess up.

[Orrias]

Here is some actually data that Akiza doesn't want to give you: Aug 2014 Census.

The problem with the data is that it's taken prior to FCoB.

[Dyvid]

The problem with the data is that it's taken prior to FCoB.

Yea but it's Akiza who assumes everyone hated SMN since 2013 :P