Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Lavieh]

Snip.

I don't think so, you can test SMN DPS while naked and it won't make a lick of difference. Itemization would just help them from falling even more behind, but it won't catch them up. Easily one strength that BLM has over SMN is that they scale incredibly WELL with anything stat but they scale the best with the stat that you can gain the most of.

If anything SMN DPS may just very well be a scaling problem in between INT/WD and how spell speed interacts with them but given that is a lot harder to balance without breaking a class SE could just simply buff a SMN's single target utility.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Lol ill properly reply to when I have more time to waste. But just a quick post.
Disease and miasma, derp disease is an additional effect of miasma.......
I compared to second wind as they are both self preservation skills, and you only need manaward if you mess up,

Less recast time is superior, it means it had more up time on the tank Lol.
Ill continue to school you later

And I won't bother with vivi you are just a waste of time, considering the nonsense you post.

The target builds resistance on the disease effect. While Miasma can still be applied on the target, Disease will be resisted after multiple applications.

Second wind may be a self preservation skill, but so is manaward. If you need manaward because you messed up and need to prevent another death from AoE mechanics, at least manaward can do this. Second wind won't prevent this.

[Akiza]

The Black Mage potency is 12% higher than Summoner's. SE should either buff the Summoner's DoT potency by 12% or increase pet potency.

[PenutButter]

The Black Mage potency is 12% higher than Summoner's. SE should either buff the Summoner's DoT potency by 12% or increase pet potency.

NO, SMNs SHOULD NOT be doing as much damage as BLM in a stationary fight. First of all, BLMs are more affected by fight mechanics that requires them to move. Good BLMs and good fight strategies can really minimize this and this is where the issue can be complicated but bad BLMs can be destroyed by mechanics. Second, SMNs has more utlity than BLMs. Raise and a superior Virus outstrips Apocatastasis in the majority of cases, you have to be insane to argue otherwise. Are they needed? No, but they are better. Manawall and Manaward are nice and sometimes convenient gimmicks more than anything but they are not gonna affect the raid in much of any way.

Admittedly, I have not done extensively testing on this lately so maybe SMN do need a buff. I do remember that they can do insane amount of damage in 2nd coil and I doubt that has changed much but who knows. I also remember that SMN do benefit quite a bit more from INT pots if used right but I dunno how significant that is now. However, they DEFINITELY should not be doing as much damage as BLM in a stationary fight. Also, I whole-heartedly agree that the BLM buff was a mistake.

After doing a several tests on dummy on my ilv108 BLM and SMN (basically, equal gear and 110 weapons), I found that though BLM does around 420 average (though BLM fluctuate a lot) and SMN does 400 average. Though I can't say how much movement mechanics, INT pot, and requiem is gonna affect this, ~5% difference is not that significant.

[ViviAnimus]

Again this utter nonsense how Summoner has better utility. Summoner has no unique utility, Black Mage does. That is the only argument that has not yet been refuted. Virus on a Summoner? Don't have to use it? Eye for an Eye on a Summoner? Don't have to use it? Raise on a Summoner, don't really have to use it and when you do, you're pretty fucked anyway. Summoner has no utility because it's not unique. Enhanced Virus is only useful on Gigaflares in T13. The SCH virusses that. You can virus the adds or something, but a BLM or a WHM can do that as well. I also am astonished that you for some reason think that utility that isn't needed is actually better than utilility that actually is. By that I mean that the unique utility a BLM has, is needed more precisely for that reason. Perhaps you are insane?

Concerning stationary fights. Can we stop pretending moving for Black Mages is hard and that it affects your DPS by such a large margin? It's piss easy and if you are having difficulties, then you need to up your game, it's that simple.
Summoner damage was never insane, it was good.
If you believe the Black Mage buff was a mistake, then I would like you to eleborate. It's still behind melee classes and is pretty much only usefull (in DPS terms) for LB3. Ah, but you are a Pugilist, you wouldn't understand. Probably too busy being top DPS from patch 2.1 till now.

I am also trying to figure out how you did 420 DPS with your level 3 thaumaturge and how you managed to only get 20 less DPS on your level 6 arcanist. I mean, three levels is a HUGE DPS increase. Maybe the arcanist outdamaged the BLM and we should nerf the ARC!
You're a fucking moron

[Super_Pollo]

If SMN does a little less overall dps than BLM so be it....but in exchange SMN needs an unique ability that offers more utility/synergy with other dps jobs. Battle Rez doesn't cut it anymore.

[Judge_Xero]

If SMN does a little less overall dps than BLM so be it....but in exchange SMN needs an unique ability that offers more utility/synergy with other dps jobs. Battle Rez doesn't cut it anymore.

Agreed. I would accept party buffs based on pets.
I.e. ifrit increases melee damage by 5%

[BlaiseArath]

NO, SMNs SHOULD NOT be doing as much damage as BLM in a stationary fight.

Mmmm, I don't know if I can agree(though I mention below an addendum to this). They're both caster jobs, and BLM has specialty in AoE damage where its uncontested champion... why should it have specialty in both AoE and Single target over SMN? Now, I actually like Eye for an Eye and Virus is nice when used right, but I rarely if ever have a situation where battle raise matters... If I'm raising on SMN we're already dead beyond hope, or I can say goodbye to my DPS forever because there goes so much MP, and bam, right back to our main problem, longevity and MP management.

I know you mention BLM suffers when it has to move a lot... and SMNs DoT's still tick if needing to move and they have Ruin II (at higher MP cost, back to MP issues...), so I kinda get where you're coming from, actually, so I don't think its without validity.

Agreed. I would accept party buffs based on pets.
I.e. ifrit increases melee damage by 5%

Like Avatar's Favor ? (from XI...)

I could get behind this, though it opens up a lot of problems. Such as being asked to use a certain pet that might not be as optimal as another... or being asked to switch a pet mid fight for certain buffs, further sh*tting on our MP conservation. But if they did give buffs...?

Ifrit: STR Bonus or Melee DPS Increase?
Garuda: INT Bonus or Magic DPS increase?
Titan: VIT Bonus or Defense increase?
(Ramuh): DEX bonus or Ranged DPS increase?
(Leviathan): MND Bonus or Healing Potency Increase?

[Ronove]

Like Avatar's Favor ? (from XI...)

I could get behind this, though it opens up a lot of problems. Such as being asked to use a certain pet that might not be as optimal as another... or being asked to switch a pet mid fight for certain buffs, further sh*tting on our MP conservation. But if they did give buffs...?

Ifrit: STR Bonus or Melee DPS Increase?
Garuda: INT Bonus or Magic DPS increase?
Titan: VIT Bonus or Defense increase?
(Ramuh): DEX bonus or Ranged DPS increase?
(Leviathan): MND Bonus or Healing Potency Increase?

If you think this would open too many issues of being asked to use certain pets, it would be cooler if you could summon pets quicker and have them cost less MP. So if the situation changes (oh no! more heals are needed! bring out Leviathan--or oh no! huge hit incoming, bring out Titan for a little bit etc.), you can do that without suffering. It would bring utility to SMN and I think make SMNs feel more connected to their pets instead of "here's something that does damage sit there and go at it". I think what SE did with this game is try to put too much of the Summons do massive damage so they should cost a lot of MP in this game and it's not working. If they do the buffing certain party members, then the summons need to be changed so it isn't going to hurt the summoner to resummon a pet for different situations.

[Lilyarel]

Snip.

Im so tired of seeing people bring up res as utility. Summoner has the lowest Mana pool in the magic classes and you want them to cast one of the most expensive spells? Youre destroying their mana pool that way and forcing them to use ED instead of Fester. Youre losing out on so much damage its ridiculous. Leave resing to the healers, they have mana that can afford such a high spell cost. Secondly, if you need more than 2 resurrections in a single fight, youre going to wipe.