Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Leonus]

Mantra contributions from ninja/dragoon are negligible. If that 5% mantra boost is what makes or breaks a raid run, then you have bigger underlying issues.

Or you should have brought a monk.

[ShinryuReishiki]

There isnt anything inherently wrong with SMN. The ppl complaining about the job, just want to see SMN being top DPS because they MAIN it.

I'm a BLM main; I'm completely fine with it being stronger. The gap is too big, though.

To make matters even more laughable is how half of the ppl complaining about SMN, have already beaten T13 as a SMN.

It's crazy, right? It's almost like having to deal with the job's shortcomings somehow made us even more aware of them... A great BLM had no issue getting through T9 before the buff; a great DRG had no issue beating T13 before the buff. That doesn't mean the jobs were without issue.

Both jobs have full motion of freedom, making them virtually immune to all mechanics except raid wide AOE while having birds eye point of view across the arena.

SMN's movement is just as limited as BLM in Final Coil. BLM can move freely during procs, SMN during Bio; both can Swiftcast once a minute. Ruin II will keep up DPS at that moment, but will leave a SMN crippled later on. It's like Scathe in that, yeah, you could use it during movement, but it hurts more than helps.

A BRD could literally stack CRIT all the way up to the 700, which is the same as 50% crit.

That's more around 30%.

Its not like there aint other options around like I dont know...ARACHNE, several which are BiS anyway.

Yeah, it's not like you'll need that HP from higher item level gear to survive basic mechanics in T13 or anything...

You can't call BLM support when 2 of the 3 abilities you list are cross-class from Arcanist. A more reasonable statement would be Apocatastasis, Lethargy, and Sleep. Two of which don't work on most 8-man content (Lethargy works on Scylla and I think Glasya, but that's all that I know of).

Apoc is the big advantage over SMN. Preventing a death is generally much more helpful than a Raise that would cripple the caster.

[Ardan]

Couldn't Manawall and Manaward be considered utility also for BLM? They are real MP savers for healers. Especially in Turn 12 and 13.

[Spayd]

You can't call BLM support when 2 of the 3 abilities you list are cross-class from Arcanist. A more reasonable statement would be Apocatastasis, Lethargy, and Sleep. Two of which don't work on most 8-man content (Lethargy works on Scylla and I think Glasya, but that's all that I know of).

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

[Akary]

I've been looking around the net an I've been getting a lot of mixed messages. Posts about Summoner being top DPS and posts about Summoner being subpar. I've even seen posts about people kicking Summoner because of said DPS.

Can anyone explain why?

Most smn's are bad is why, you either see the ruin spam smn'ers, if there is a mob without dots shouldn't be casting ruin, or you have th mediocore smn you lets there dots tick off

[Lavieh]

Most smn's are bad is why, you either see the ruin spam smn'ers, if there is a mob without dots shouldn't be casting ruin, or you have th mediocore smn you lets there dots tick off

This was like eye poison.

I think its more-so that they are reading dated information vs. recent information. SMN used to be Top DPS almost a year ago, but that isn't the case anymore.

[point09micron]

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

My point was that a list of ways BLMs support the group should not include Virus and Eye for an Eye.

[Sunako]

My point was that a list of ways BLMs support the group should not include Virus and Eye for an Eye.

And the reason? Because those are cross class skills? I did not say those skills are huge support. Even small support is support and better than nothing. Your statement is almost same than that Raging Strikes should not include damage increasing ability for SMN or BLM. Or invigorate should not include tp generating ability for bards/ninjas/monks.

[Sanguisio]

Most smn's are bad is why, you either see the ruin spam smn'ers, if there is a mob without dots shouldn't be casting ruin, or you have th mediocore smn you lets there dots tick off

Yes but unless there are more two ticks left of health left on that target applying more DOTs is useless, casting ruin would be more favorable.

[Sanguisio]

a Black mage could legit Kite in t7 and Lethargy do work on renauds iirc. But Freeze anyway.

Now they can but before it would have been silly to have a BLM kite as you have to spend time out of range of the boss and adds at times which results in a DPS loss a SMN still has DOTs ticking, can place and "bind" the target in place.

Its one of those you can cut a steak with a spoon but a knife would be better scenarios