Dragoons not allowed to use Stun? (Low level Dungeons)

[Mysteltain]

Whenever there is a fight or enemy that you're not used to, it's a good idea to save the stun until you see them use what looks to be a big attack. If you stun, then you know to save it. If it says that they're immune, spam it as often as possible for that sweet DPS. Of course, with trash mobs, it's often safe to use your stun whenever--there are only a few mobs that come to mind that require a stun.

Of course, it's also important to communicate with your tank if you are going to stun, as PLDs are often dedicated stunners if a fight requires one (like Ifrit HM back in the day). In that case, you ought to hold off on using it.

[Galactimus]

I actually really dislike playing with Dragoons in general because of the way their stuns are used for DPS. Most players put these stuns into their regular DPS rotation; not caring if the stun itself was used properly or not. While there is nothing wrong with this it does indeed greatly clash with a Paladins play style. A large part of Paladin tanking is taking a boss (or annoying enemy), out of the fight for 20 seconds while Stunning and Pacifying its 6 biggest moves.

Normally we can stun a boss for 6 seconds, 3 seconds, and 1 second before its stun resistance is maxed. The same applies to our Shield Swipes pacify effect. With these two abilities at our disposal we get used to tanking bosses with the knowledge that we have these stuns available (before having to rely on other methods.)


So a Monk opens up a fight with Shoulder Tackle while the Dragoon runs in with a Leg Sweep and Spineshatter Dive. Full stun resistance at the very start of the fight; how lovely. Then they'll both die to the first "100 Ton Swing" on Coincounter or something when I could have stunned every single one without resistance. Same goes with Lunatic Voice, Nightmare, Dragon's Voice, Dreadstorm, Eruption, Paralyze II, Final Sting, Banish III, Tail Screw, Void Thunder III, Divide, w/e.

This applies to White Mage's too; not just Dragoon's. Holy spam on mass pulls may seem like a good idea at the time (and it usually is.) But if there's two Corrupted Elementals and a Ghost spamming Banish III and Paralyze II in Pharos, or three Bee's itching to use Final Sting at any moment on Hullbreaker, I'd prefer if they didn't have maxed Stun resistance right off the bat. I kind of need to Stun and Silence those.

[Kasathar]

^
As you can see, PLD's tend to be pretty whinny about stuns.

[Galactimus]

^
More like some people don't give proper stunning enough credit

Here's some cheese to go with that bottle of whinne. <3

Education. {You can have this}

And for the tank who dislike Dragoon stun stated above, I see absolutely no reason why the Dragoon need to hold their stun skill ( lose their optimal DPS) in the fight where to stun or not, is not even a matter????

I listed many situations and abilities that should be stunned which benefits the party far more than random Leg Sweeps. I never said a Dragoon should never use Leg Sweep; only that it should be treated more situationally and not as a 1, 2, 3 DPS ability with no consequences. Furthermore, your "leg sweep is optimal dps" rant is just silly. So you raised your DPS by 10; congratulations(?). That sounds far more useful then stunning hard hitting moves properly. You know, when a healer doesn't have to heal us they put up far more DPS then your silly leg sweep.

Preventing the party from being paralyzed, heavily nuked, stunned, charmed, or one-shotted, gives the party more overall party DPS than random "Leg Sweep DMG!" on many encounters. There are a LOT of "tunnel vision / max deeps" Dragoons who don't look at the big picture.

[Kasathar]

Here's some cheese to go with that bottle of whinne. <3

[LionKing]

Unless the boss need to be stun to cancel out their attack or to delay their movement (Dread in T5, Second boss in Satasha, Caster add in LEVI Ex,...), I can see why NOBODY else should use stun on them but Tanks due to the fact it messes with the timing and number of Stun. Other than that, whoever says you should not use Stun under any other circumstances, they are bloody idiots and you can either laugh at their stupidity or ignore them and move on.

Another reason is a great deal number of bosses are stun resistance. So, to Stun or not, it does not matter. However, using your stun skill is the DPS increase.

And for the tank who dislike Dragoon stun stated above, I see absolutely no reason why the Dragoon need to hold their stun skill ( lose their optimal DPS) in the fight where to stun or not, is not even a matter???? Why you have to stun them when they can just be taken down an fast??. Is it because as of a Paladin, you feel the need to show off your skills as Paladin by throwing out random Stuns that serves no purpose and a waste of TP and GCD?.....And normally, in the fight, where Stun is not matter, the skill,even goes off, will NOT 1 hit KO you by all means and DODGE-ABLE, unless you are Way Way under geared, or just being a dummy standing there and feel invincible?? apparently it is not the case though.

[ChaozK]

Id wish they would find a better solution for the diminishing returns of stuns. Silence doesnt build up resistance, so bards and ninjas are free to use their silences without getting in the way of PLDs interrupts, not so much with the stuns of DRGs and MNKs.

The only reason why they couldnt make it like silence is most likely because PLDs own stun not having a CD, so it would be somewhat abusable. Its kinda ironic if you think about it.

[RyuDragnier]

I actually really dislike playing with Dragoons in general because of the way their stuns are used for DPS. Most players put these stuns into their regular DPS rotation; not caring if the stun itself was used properly or not. While there is nothing wrong with this it does indeed greatly clash with a Paladins play style. A large part of Paladin tanking is taking a boss (or annoying enemy), out of the fight for 20 seconds while Stunning and Pacifying its 6 biggest moves.


Normally we can stun a boss for 6 seconds, 3 seconds, and 1 second before its stun resistance is maxed. The same applies to our Shield Swipes pacify effect. With these two abilities at our disposal we get used to tanking bosses with the knowledge that we have these stuns available (before having to rely on other methods.)

So a Monk opens up a fight with Shoulder Tackle while the Dragoon runs in with a Leg Sweep and Spineshatter Dive. Full stun resistance at the very start of the fight; how lovely. Then they'll both die to the first "100 Ton Swing" on Coincounter or something when I could have stunned every single one without resistance. Same goes with Lunatic Voice, Nightmare, Dragon's Voice, Dreadstorm, Eruption, Paralyze II, Final Sting, Banish III, Tail Screw, Void Thunder III, Divide, w/e.

This applies to White Mage's too; not just Dragoon's. Holy spam on mass pulls may seem like a good idea at the time (and it usually is.) But if there's two Corrupted Elementals and a Ghost spamming Banish III and Paralyze II in Pharos, or three Bee's itching to use Final Sting at any moment on Hullbreaker, I'd prefer if they didn't have maxed Stun resistance right off the bat. I kind of need to Stun and Silence those.

Sadly most don't know how to hold back like I do when on MNK or DRG. There are specific mobs you don't want to stun until the right moment comes, and you need to know which ones these are an to hold back against them so you don't stun them (unless the tank refuses to stun). However, this also requires the tank to stun/silence them at the right time otherwise the job is on the MNK/DRG, and stun is something I rarely see most tanks do (there are a lot of tank noobs in the DF nowadays). Bosses in general you don't want to stun unless they resist it, though primals and pretty much everything in Coil resists it (with the exception of Ifrit, still trying to figure out why).

[PArcher]

Snip

First off, if you're chain pulling mobs and they are allowed to use abilities like Final Sting and Banish...you don't have the DPS to do that kind of chain pull. Check your ego and pull smaller.

Second, all the boss abilities you mentioned can either be Silenced (which has no resistance...and you're a PLD, so I hope you're saving Spirits and not using it on CD) or easily dodged, so really no *need* to stun them (only one that may need a stun is Nightmare, but in all the times Ive fought Diabolos he's never killed anyone when we've been hit by Nightmare unless someone royally screwed up)

You seem like one of those PLD who have to pull big every time then blame everyone else when it fails despite the fact that someone is obviously undergeared or you have two single-target DPS...

[Kasathar]

Sadly I think we are getting into an argument for nothing, if "some" people read the original post, you would know the OP is not talking about boss fights, the OP is talking about trash mobs in a dungeon.

But oh well, this just further proves my point that PLD's tend to be pretty touchy in regards to their only spammable ability, as if it was the all be all. Thanks for the laughs.