Dragoons not allowed to use Stun? (Low level Dungeons)

[Galactimus]

I actually really dislike playing with Dragoons in general because of the way their stuns are used for DPS. Most players put these stuns into their regular DPS rotation; not caring if the stun itself was used properly or not. While there is nothing wrong with this it does indeed greatly clash with a Paladins play style. A large part of Paladin tanking is taking a boss (or annoying enemy), out of the fight for 20 seconds while Stunning and Pacifying its 6 biggest moves.

Normally we can stun a boss for 6 seconds, 3 seconds, and 1 second before its stun resistance is maxed. The same applies to our Shield Swipes pacify effect. With these two abilities at our disposal we get used to tanking bosses with the knowledge that we have these stuns available (before having to rely on other methods.)


So a Monk opens up a fight with Shoulder Tackle while the Dragoon runs in with a Leg Sweep and Spineshatter Dive. Full stun resistance at the very start of the fight; how lovely. Then they'll both die to the first "100 Ton Swing" on Coincounter or something when I could have stunned every single one without resistance. Same goes with Lunatic Voice, Nightmare, Dragon's Voice, Dreadstorm, Eruption, Paralyze II, Final Sting, Banish III, Tail Screw, Void Thunder III, Divide, w/e.

This applies to White Mage's too; not just Dragoon's. Holy spam on mass pulls may seem like a good idea at the time (and it usually is.) But if there's two Corrupted Elementals and a Ghost spamming Banish III and Paralyze II in Pharos, or three Bee's itching to use Final Sting at any moment on Hullbreaker, I'd prefer if they didn't have maxed Stun resistance right off the bat. I kind of need to Stun and Silence those.

[RyuDragnier]

I actually really dislike playing with Dragoons in general because of the way their stuns are used for DPS. Most players put these stuns into their regular DPS rotation; not caring if the stun itself was used properly or not. While there is nothing wrong with this it does indeed greatly clash with a Paladins play style. A large part of Paladin tanking is taking a boss (or annoying enemy), out of the fight for 20 seconds while Stunning and Pacifying its 6 biggest moves.


Normally we can stun a boss for 6 seconds, 3 seconds, and 1 second before its stun resistance is maxed. The same applies to our Shield Swipes pacify effect. With these two abilities at our disposal we get used to tanking bosses with the knowledge that we have these stuns available (before having to rely on other methods.)

So a Monk opens up a fight with Shoulder Tackle while the Dragoon runs in with a Leg Sweep and Spineshatter Dive. Full stun resistance at the very start of the fight; how lovely. Then they'll both die to the first "100 Ton Swing" on Coincounter or something when I could have stunned every single one without resistance. Same goes with Lunatic Voice, Nightmare, Dragon's Voice, Dreadstorm, Eruption, Paralyze II, Final Sting, Banish III, Tail Screw, Void Thunder III, Divide, w/e.

This applies to White Mage's too; not just Dragoon's. Holy spam on mass pulls may seem like a good idea at the time (and it usually is.) But if there's two Corrupted Elementals and a Ghost spamming Banish III and Paralyze II in Pharos, or three Bee's itching to use Final Sting at any moment on Hullbreaker, I'd prefer if they didn't have maxed Stun resistance right off the bat. I kind of need to Stun and Silence those.

Sadly most don't know how to hold back like I do when on MNK or DRG. There are specific mobs you don't want to stun until the right moment comes, and you need to know which ones these are an to hold back against them so you don't stun them (unless the tank refuses to stun). However, this also requires the tank to stun/silence them at the right time otherwise the job is on the MNK/DRG, and stun is something I rarely see most tanks do (there are a lot of tank noobs in the DF nowadays). Bosses in general you don't want to stun unless they resist it, though primals and pretty much everything in Coil resists it (with the exception of Ifrit, still trying to figure out why).

[PArcher]

Snip

First off, if you're chain pulling mobs and they are allowed to use abilities like Final Sting and Banish...you don't have the DPS to do that kind of chain pull. Check your ego and pull smaller.

Second, all the boss abilities you mentioned can either be Silenced (which has no resistance...and you're a PLD, so I hope you're saving Spirits and not using it on CD) or easily dodged, so really no *need* to stun them (only one that may need a stun is Nightmare, but in all the times Ive fought Diabolos he's never killed anyone when we've been hit by Nightmare unless someone royally screwed up)

You seem like one of those PLD who have to pull big every time then blame everyone else when it fails despite the fact that someone is obviously undergeared or you have two single-target DPS...

[Galactimus]

Second, all the boss abilities you mentioned can either be Silenced (which has no resistance...and you're a PLD, so I hope you're saving Spirits and not using it on CD)

Thank you for proving my point?

Saving "Spirits Within" to properly Silence mobs on certain encounters is far more useful than the 10 DPS you get from simply spamming the ability. So I'm not sure why it's such a shocker that properly Stunning mobs on certain encounters is far more useful then the 10 DPS you get from spamming "Leg Sweep" and making it immune to Stun.

(Side note: Silence Resistance DOES exist. Silencing "High Voltage" or "Dragon's Voice" can fail if there's too many Paladins using "Spirit's Within" and too many Bard's using "Blunt Arrow."

[Nyalia]

(Side note: Silence Resistance DOES exists. Silencing "High Voltage" or "Dragon's Voice" can fail if there's too many Paladins using "Spirit's Within" and too many Bard's using "Blunt Arrow."

^ This is true. Resistance exists for all status ailments, both on enemies and on players. I believe stun resistance just takes longer to fall off after a stun than the others, and silence works just fine as long as it's not fully resisted. The silence duration going from 1.5s to 1s to 0.5s to 0.1s is meaningless - you're just using it to interrupt, which it does in all cases as long as it wasn't fully resisted. When you chain-sleep a mob though to keep it out of a fight, each subsequent sleep is much shorter, and eventually they just fully resist the sleep. Bind is the same way if you've ever tried to chain-bind a mob that you're kiting.

You can really notice status ailment resistances on players (even outside of PvP where it's obvious) when fighting Hunt marks that love to spam things like sleep or disease or petrify or bind - each subsequent hit has a shorter duration. When petrified for 30s by Maahes, and he petrifies you again when it gets down to 5s left, it refreshes back up to 20s, not to 30s.

Debuffs that aren't "status ailments" (the set icons) don't build resistance, and I don't believe poison does either. Some mobs also have fixed-duration effects, like the stun from the first boss of Sastasha HM, that you can't resist and always last the same duration.

[StouterTaru]

^ This is true. Resistance exists for all status ailments, both on enemies and on players.

Then why can I get hit with a full 20 second gravity 10 times in 30 seconds?

[Ultimatecalibur]

Then why can I get hit with a full 20 second gravity 10 times in 30 seconds?

Nyalia is slightly off. All 8 of the common status ailments (Poison, Stone, Heavy, Silence, Stun, Slow, Sleep, Blind, Bind) have resistances and therefore diminishing returns. The "mounted" status disables the diminishing returns effect on Heavy. Other rare or enhanced status ailments (Poison#, Stone Curse, Leadened, etc.) are not effected by resistances so therefore can not be resisted.

[Almalexia]

Then why can I get hit with a full 20 second gravity 10 times in 30 seconds?

Chocobo is different. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Also,

Another reason is a great deal number of bosses are stun resistance. So, to Stun or not, it does not matter. However, using your stun skill is the DPS increase.

And for the tank who dislike Dragoon stun stated above, I see absolutely no reason why the Dragoon need to hold their stun skill ( lose their optimal DPS) in the fight where to stun or not, is not even a matter???? Why you have to stun them when they can just be taken down an fast??

Exercise your brain parts when it comes time to use stun. If a mob is immune, it doesn't matter much. But think about an avoidable OHKO, knockback, or other stunnable attack that would incapacitate or otherwise disengage you from the target.

Don't you think you'd do MORE DPS if you didn't have to run away or dodge a mechanic because your friendly tank stunned that for you? Do you really think an ability on a 30-60s cooldown that does slightly more than an autoattack is worth blowing when you could use a real GCD later on when someone else stuns the mechanic for you?

[PArcher]

(Side note: Silence Resistance DOES exists. Silencing "High Voltage" or "Dragon's Voice" can fail if there's too many Paladins using "Spirit's Within" and too many Bard's using "Blunt Arrow."

Um...LOL

The "resistance" you're seeing is from multiple silences going out at the same time; do that with any CC ability (where the new timer is shorter or equal to the current timer) and you'll see it (Sleep, Pacification, Heavy, Stun, Silence, etc). For Silence, there is no building resistance; that's why you can Silence every single High Voltage and Ram's Voice and such.

And having a tank hold a DPS ability is better than a DPS doing the same; the DPS is going to do more DPS with theirs (esp DRG, Leg Sweep is only a 20-second CD, where most others are 30 or 60 seconds)

[Galactimus]

Um...LOL

The "resistance" you're seeing is from multiple silences going out at the same time; do that with any CC ability (where the new timer is shorter or equal to the current timer) and you'll see it (Sleep, Pacification, Heavy, Stun, Silence, etc). For Silence, there is no building resistance; that's why you can Silence every single High Voltage and Ram's Voice and such.

Again. "LOL" False. Silence Resistance exists. If you use three silencing abilities in quick succession its will become immune to Silence for about a minute. Two Paladins spamming Spirits Within for extra DPS WHILE two Bards are trying to rotate their Silence cooldowns to stop High Voltage / Dragon's Voice WILL cause the mob to be immune to Silence. It has exactly the same resistance build-up as Stun. You use it three times quickly and its has 100% resistance.