Speed Running Is Getting Out of Hand

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I can't say it enough: when speed running became so popular, we were i90-100s running i55 content. Current expert dungeons are i80. Things. Hit. Back. At least now they do. And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies. Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore when you consider those factors, and last I knew, wiping a lot - if at all - doesn't sound like it's part of the speed run description.

[Zaft]

And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies.

Actually, that's exactly what higher ilvl gear does. It increases mitigation and allows for higher damage/healing output. While enemies may be stronger, we are stronger as well. Significantly so, if you're in augmented ironworks/dreadwyrm.

Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore

Big pulls will always be practical because they will always be efficient. Look at the potency on your AoE abilities and begin to multiply that by an incrementing number. As you can see, most AoE abilities become worth using around 3 or more enemies. And it just so happens that most enemy packs are 3 or more enemies. If you are going to spam your AoE anyway...why not pull the whole zone? It's far more efficient. Gear permitting, of course.

[Nestama]

If you are going to spam your AoE anyway...why not pull the whole zone? It's far more efficient. Gear permitting, of course.

Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

[Deculture]

Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

Focus target stun/silence (e.g. /ac "Blunt Arrow/Spirits Within/Shield Bash/etc" <f>) Banish 3s, AoE w/ dots are just handled with high DPS + Holy stun. A lot of things can be bruteforced so long as they can be stunned or silenced with high enough DPS.

I can't say it enough: when speed running became so popular, we were i90-100s running i55 content. Current expert dungeons are i80. Things. Hit. Back. At least now they do. And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies. Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore when you consider those factors, and last I knew, wiping a lot - if at all - doesn't sound like it's part of the speed run description.

I was doing big pulls in my fledgling PLD a month ago in a mixture of ilvl 90 and 110 items for expert roulette without any issues - it all comes down to cooldown usage and DPS composition. The gear discrepancy from FCoB (even unupgraded poetics) is bigger than 2.1's BCoB/Mythology gear so I have no idea where you got the idea that current expert dungeons aren't efficient anymore.

[RyuDragnier]

I was doing big pulls in my fledgling PLD a month ago in a mixture of ilvl 90 and 110 items for expert roulette without any issues - it all comes down to cooldown usage and DPS composition. The gear discrepancy from FCoB (even unupgraded poetics) is bigger than 2.1's BCoB/Mythology gear so I have no idea where you got the idea that current expert dungeons aren't efficient anymore.

The cooldown usage is the big one. If a tank doesn't use them, they won't live at all and a speed run ain't happening. You see it more and more nowadays so it's more on the lines that the playerbase is becoming less efficient, not the gear.

[Nestama]

Focus target stun/silence (e.g. /ac "Blunt Arrow/Spirits Within/Shield Bash/etc" <f>) Banish 3s

You expect too much from DF. Any time I did PS in 2.3-2.4, BRDs/Tanks/DPS don't bother stunning Banish III (and that still hurts, just not as badly as it used to back in 2.1). As for Holy stun... what if the mobs can't be stunned? (the one with 'Banish III' can be stunned, of course)

[Ooshima]

You expect too much from DF. Any time I did PS in 2.3-2.4, BRDs/Tanks/DPS don't bother stunning Banish III (and that still hurts, just not as badly as it used to back in 2.1). As for Holy stun... what if the mobs can't be stunned? (the one with 'Banish III' can be stunned, of course)

There's a thing called Hallowed Ground/Holmgang. Use it wisely.

But of course, idiots will be idiots. If you're a tank you should evaluate your party composition and gear to see what's the max and most comfortably you can pull, and only pull more if the first or first two pulls proved that the team can take more. Tanks who doesn't evaluate, can't do shit about them.

Personally, for high level roulette I will queue as tank or healer. Healer (WHM) seems to make my life easier because a sub-par tank can still do a large pull cos I'm already way overgeared. EX roulette I actually prefer to go as a BLM, because having a BLM in the team will always speed up the current EX dungeons faster regardless how large the pull is. These mobs just have too much HP. If your tank/healer can't handle larger pulls and you don't have a BLM to aoe the mobs down... it will be painfully slow.

[Nestama]

If your tank/healer can't handle larger pulls and you don't have a BLM to aoe the mobs down... it will be painfully slow.

Sounds like I need to start queuing as a DRG or MNK... might actually enjoy the dungeons again :P

[Duuude007]

Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

Tank and stunners are responsible to mark these targets to kill first, and interrupt the casting of threatening moves. It is simple to do alone as a PLD, with enough practice.

And dancing around aoes is super easy to do, system permitting. If im playing on my console or laptop ill do smaller pulls for reaction safety. That said, I will never pull just one pack unless a barrier denies me more adds.

And they can all cast {Banish} III which can not be stunned (but can be silenced). {Banish} IV or V if two or more mobs are standing next to each other (pull wisely).

Um, I stun it just fine in Pharos against corrupted sprites, so it isn't the spell that cannot be stunned, maybe the mob type?

[Ariyn]

snip

It's been awhile since I played but even I know this statement isn't true. When the game launched we were speed running AK with i50ish gear. This is not a new thing and any tank with half a brain and equivilant gear should be able to handle big pulls. CD's and just not standing in stuff makes a world of difference. The fact is that most tanks are still in the 'WoW' mindset and think that cd's are only for bosses were the trash hits just as hard if not harder than most bosses.