Speed Running Is Getting Out of Hand

[Gorvi]

Let me start by saying I don't mind a speed run, especially speedrunning old content that everyone is overgeared for. When I que up for High Level roulette I pretty much expect a speedrun these days. But for EX dungeons? It needs to stop.

Now maybe with a static group you're fine, but as a WHM, most tanks simply can't stand up to it, but that sure doesn't stop them from trying. When I can spam Cure 2 to barely keep a tank alive (ilvl 116, so I'm far from lacking in the gear department) there's a big problem. And if they get paralyzed or a couple of poisons? Forget about it.

This seems to be something that I'm seeing more recently in the past couple of weeks, I've had more wipes in EX dungeons in that span than in the past few months total.

[Khonrath]

Here's your fix: Tell your party you cant handle it. Then if First wipe, Pull less mobs. GG. Just because you can't speed run doesn't mean others shouldn't. Slow down your runs if you are experiencing issues.

[Gorvi]

It's not a matter of not being able to handle it, it's tanks that don't have the gear and/or skill who try to speed run EX dungeons when they have no business doing so, especially when one or both DPS slots are melee. It certainly doesn't help when emnity isn't controlled well enough that DPSs start to drop take hits and drop, tempers will flair, and people will rage quit.

Maybe I've just had bad luck lately but I've seen this happen far too often the past few weeks.

[Artiste]

Dont dispel a tank if he's paralysed, unless you feel you still heal enough.
Dont dispel a single poison, dispel 1 or 2 maximum only if he have 2-3 poisons (make sure he's high enough before doing the dispels that he survive while you're in GCD)

Myself, I see only tanks that take as much monsters as there is on the map before getting block by a gate or something.
I think, when they see they take like 6-9 monsters and I still take time to dps with Holy, they feel confident and take even more after.

Once a tank took all before the last boss of Sastasha (those last monsters hit hard), I had time to do 3 holy (1 more whould be highlyy risky, 2 more, he was dead)
But when I go as DPS and I see other tanks doing same, 90% of the time, it lead to a wipe (once I think the heal did it), and they dont even have time to Holy, they just cant heal this, whatever the gear they have (even saw healers with better gear then my healer)

I dont understand how they can fail it, it's simple :
Divine seal > Cure2 > regen > the buff for speed while you're in GCD of regen > Cure2 > cure 2> ... > if you see it's goes well > DPS stance > speedcast > 2-3 Holys > return in healing stance > cure 2, cure 2, and dont forget the buff to give mana
Also, if you see his life doesn't decrase too much, try to put some cure1 in beetwin the cure2 to save some mana.

Ok, maybe this is too hard for some ppl, but I feel it's simple, already played things harder then that.

[Gorvi]

Artiste, that's all well and good, but I'm talking about tanks that can't handle that. I think I've just been getting really bad luck in DF lately with people pulling far more than the can handle, but I'm talking about popping Divine Seal and Presence of Mind and spamming Cure 2 non-stop and that still isn't enough. There isn't time to even throw out a Regen because by the time the GCD comes around again for another Cure 2 they're eating dirt.

Then again I've also caught tanks trying to spiritbind and do this as well, so maybe I really am just getting really bad luck with DF.

[Black91CRX]

While grinding for Zodiac drops, I got into Copper HM with a fresh 50 healer. Tank pulled every mob up to first boss at once (after the initial lift gate). I was thoroughly impressed with his ability to keep up.

[RyuDragnier]

Artiste, that's all well and good, but I'm talking about tanks that can't handle that. I think I've just been getting really bad luck in DF lately with people pulling far more than the can handle, but I'm talking about popping Divine Seal and Presence of Mind and spamming Cure 2 non-stop and that still isn't enough. There isn't time to even throw out a Regen because by the time the GCD comes around again for another Cure 2 they're eating dirt.

Then again I've also caught tanks trying to spiritbind and do this as well, so maybe I really am just getting really bad luck with DF.

A lot of tanks I've seen in the roulettes for Expert dungeons do not pop ANY cooldowns (like noobs), which can be part of the problem, especially in Qarn where everything hits like a truck. I can cover this problem as SCH due to all my damage mitigation, but it cuts close at times. It's worse if it's a WHM healing and the tanks are not popping cooldowns, simply because there isn't enough damage mitigation to cover the damage being taken, and unless there is a lot of Divine Seal - Presence of Mind - Cure 2 spam from the WHM and enough DPS to burn things down, the tank is most likely going to fall.

The second their HP gets low, Hallowed Ground or Holmgang should be popped ASAP by the tank, because if not then they're going to die, and the rest of the party will follow. The healer cannot do all the work alone, the tanks have to help with cooldowns. If they don't, they're bad, period dot dot.

[MXMoondoggie]

Most tanks are fine it's just one or two that don't have particularly great gear but insist they speed run 24/7 and that the healer is at fault for the wipes so they will tank one mob at a time or whatever. People should simply do what they can handle and not try to rush because they think it looks cool or it's what people expect. It's better to have a smooth run at pace than a run full of wipes because the Tank was overwhelmed and went down before the cast time of a benediction or cure II. With most Tanks you should be fine if you know the dungeon well. I've been playing around with different rotations and I've found opening with swiftcast and holy works quite well for a Tank that takes some early damage since it'll stun everything for several seconds taking pressure off the Tank and you can switch to divine seal and regen on them quite quickly then medica II and go do another couple of holys with cleric stance on and then heal tank again. The combo of regen spells and stun breaks for the Tank make life easier for both of you.

DPS friends who queue with moron Tanks don't help those bad situations though since they are up the Tanks backside and act as enablers to their rush and die then say the Healer is trash behavior XD.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I can't say it enough: when speed running became so popular, we were i90-100s running i55 content. Current expert dungeons are i80. Things. Hit. Back. At least now they do. And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies. Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore when you consider those factors, and last I knew, wiping a lot - if at all - doesn't sound like it's part of the speed run description.

[Sessurea]

I think it's fine on my sch. But tanks eating aoes/not bothering to pop cooldowns like tards/losing agro to dps.....well it can turn pretty ugly tbh. I personally hate non speed runs but I respect a tank who pulls within his ability too. Especially inexperienced paladins have difficulty with aoe threat vs say, a triple flaring blm, quelling or no.