Speed Running Is Getting Out of Hand

[Gorvi]

Let me start by saying I don't mind a speed run, especially speedrunning old content that everyone is overgeared for. When I que up for High Level roulette I pretty much expect a speedrun these days. But for EX dungeons? It needs to stop.

Now maybe with a static group you're fine, but as a WHM, most tanks simply can't stand up to it, but that sure doesn't stop them from trying. When I can spam Cure 2 to barely keep a tank alive (ilvl 116, so I'm far from lacking in the gear department) there's a big problem. And if they get paralyzed or a couple of poisons? Forget about it.

This seems to be something that I'm seeing more recently in the past couple of weeks, I've had more wipes in EX dungeons in that span than in the past few months total.

[Khonrath]

Here's your fix: Tell your party you cant handle it. Then if First wipe, Pull less mobs. GG. Just because you can't speed run doesn't mean others shouldn't. Slow down your runs if you are experiencing issues.

[Gorvi]

It's not a matter of not being able to handle it, it's tanks that don't have the gear and/or skill who try to speed run EX dungeons when they have no business doing so, especially when one or both DPS slots are melee. It certainly doesn't help when emnity isn't controlled well enough that DPSs start to drop take hits and drop, tempers will flair, and people will rage quit.

Maybe I've just had bad luck lately but I've seen this happen far too often the past few weeks.

[Artiste]

Dont dispel a tank if he's paralysed, unless you feel you still heal enough.
Dont dispel a single poison, dispel 1 or 2 maximum only if he have 2-3 poisons (make sure he's high enough before doing the dispels that he survive while you're in GCD)

Myself, I see only tanks that take as much monsters as there is on the map before getting block by a gate or something.
I think, when they see they take like 6-9 monsters and I still take time to dps with Holy, they feel confident and take even more after.

Once a tank took all before the last boss of Sastasha (those last monsters hit hard), I had time to do 3 holy (1 more whould be highlyy risky, 2 more, he was dead)
But when I go as DPS and I see other tanks doing same, 90% of the time, it lead to a wipe (once I think the heal did it), and they dont even have time to Holy, they just cant heal this, whatever the gear they have (even saw healers with better gear then my healer)

I dont understand how they can fail it, it's simple :
Divine seal > Cure2 > regen > the buff for speed while you're in GCD of regen > Cure2 > cure 2> ... > if you see it's goes well > DPS stance > speedcast > 2-3 Holys > return in healing stance > cure 2, cure 2, and dont forget the buff to give mana
Also, if you see his life doesn't decrase too much, try to put some cure1 in beetwin the cure2 to save some mana.

Ok, maybe this is too hard for some ppl, but I feel it's simple, already played things harder then that.

[Gorvi]

Artiste, that's all well and good, but I'm talking about tanks that can't handle that. I think I've just been getting really bad luck in DF lately with people pulling far more than the can handle, but I'm talking about popping Divine Seal and Presence of Mind and spamming Cure 2 non-stop and that still isn't enough. There isn't time to even throw out a Regen because by the time the GCD comes around again for another Cure 2 they're eating dirt.

Then again I've also caught tanks trying to spiritbind and do this as well, so maybe I really am just getting really bad luck with DF.

[RyuDragnier]

Artiste, that's all well and good, but I'm talking about tanks that can't handle that. I think I've just been getting really bad luck in DF lately with people pulling far more than the can handle, but I'm talking about popping Divine Seal and Presence of Mind and spamming Cure 2 non-stop and that still isn't enough. There isn't time to even throw out a Regen because by the time the GCD comes around again for another Cure 2 they're eating dirt.

Then again I've also caught tanks trying to spiritbind and do this as well, so maybe I really am just getting really bad luck with DF.

A lot of tanks I've seen in the roulettes for Expert dungeons do not pop ANY cooldowns (like noobs), which can be part of the problem, especially in Qarn where everything hits like a truck. I can cover this problem as SCH due to all my damage mitigation, but it cuts close at times. It's worse if it's a WHM healing and the tanks are not popping cooldowns, simply because there isn't enough damage mitigation to cover the damage being taken, and unless there is a lot of Divine Seal - Presence of Mind - Cure 2 spam from the WHM and enough DPS to burn things down, the tank is most likely going to fall.

The second their HP gets low, Hallowed Ground or Holmgang should be popped ASAP by the tank, because if not then they're going to die, and the rest of the party will follow. The healer cannot do all the work alone, the tanks have to help with cooldowns. If they don't, they're bad, period dot dot.

[Numenor1379]

A lot of tanks I've seen in the roulettes for Expert dungeons do not pop ANY cooldowns (like noobs), which can be part of the problem, especially in Qarn where everything hits like a truck. I can cover this problem as SCH due to all my damage mitigation, but it cuts close at times. It's worse if it's a WHM healing and the tanks are not popping cooldowns, simply because there isn't enough damage mitigation to cover the damage being taken, and unless there is a lot of Divine Seal - Presence of Mind - Cure 2 spam from the WHM and enough DPS to burn things down, the tank is most likely going to fall.

The second their HP gets low, Hallowed Ground or Holmgang should be popped ASAP by the tank, because if not then they're going to die, and the rest of the party will follow. The healer cannot do all the work alone, the tanks have to help with cooldowns. If they don't, they're bad, period dot dot.

This... so much this... I don't know what a lot of the DF tanks I've been seeing are thinking lately, but they seem allergic to any sort of defensive c/d. Hell, I had one tank that they only way I could keep them up was Cure II spam plus regen because the idiot was going full DPS on the mobs. Then of course when DPS start getting hit and you're busy hitting them with a Cure I to keep them up, and the Tank refuses to hit Hollowed/Holmgang when they hit triple digits on HP... *sigh*

[Black91CRX]

While grinding for Zodiac drops, I got into Copper HM with a fresh 50 healer. Tank pulled every mob up to first boss at once (after the initial lift gate). I was thoroughly impressed with his ability to keep up.

[Zedd702]

While grinding for Zodiac drops, I got into Copper HM with a fresh 50 healer. Tank pulled every mob up to first boss at once (after the initial lift gate). I was thoroughly impressed with his ability to keep up.

I believe this was me lol... This is vaguely familiar and I had a blast with whatever team I was on. Your name looks familiar too!

Not that I am a "fresh" 50 healer, I but my ilvl was 100 WHM.

I never SR copperbell, but when I saw what was pulled to the boss, even through the boulders we had to stop for etc, I was surprised at the licks the tank was able to take while dancing around at the roadblocks. I'm even more shocked I could toss in Holy in most of those herds...

If this was not you, then I ran it with another tank that I believe was in Allagan gear, but I swear it was your name. I too was there for Zodiac weapon.

Therein lies the problem. Sure, people will always find a way to do things more efficiently, but they're stubbornly sticking to an old method that - yes, while it does work - is debatable in its efficiency. That is of course considering high TP cost, low damage AoEs vs strong single target DPS (which at higher gear levels tears through trash anyways). Not an issue for casters, yes, but not everyone is a caster. And not everyone WANTS to speed run.

Fact is, the "choice" is an illusion. Well geared healer? You're a heal machine - we can speed run! Tank? You set the pace - better speed run. DPS with decent gear/aoes? Keep up - you're speed running. Tested the tank pace-setting thing myself (note: it didn't work) and believe me, I'm not afraid to simply drop party in an Eorzean minute the moment I hear salt about big pulls. Truly, it upsets me to do that, but it's either play the way someone else dictates - regardless of my role - or eat a timer and either go with friends/FC/PF group in 30 more minutes. And that's if they're available, AND if they themselves don't want to speed run. So again, the "choice" is sadly, an illusion.

No, there is a choice... let them kick you or they can work together. If the tank or healer is not up for a Speed Run, then a speed run will not happen. If the tank is up for one but lacks the DPS to make for an efficient SR, then the tank will have to learn it the hard way with his own life or lifeline aka healers MP...

[Black91CRX]

I believe this was me lol... This is vaguely familiar and I had a blast with whatever team I was on. Your name looks familiar too!

Not that I am a "fresh" 50 healer, I but my ilvl was 100 WHM.
If this was not you, then I ran it with another tank that I believe was in Allagan gear, but I swear it was your name. I too was there for Zodiac weapon.

Nah, the guy I was speaking of was definitely a fresh 50. AF geared and less than 3K HP. However, you probably did run with me another time. Ive spammed Copper a bunch lately ^^