Speed Running Is Getting Out of Hand

[Zedd702]

I see what you are saying, but if you want a relaxing run, do High level or Low lvl. EX currently is for quick tomes due to everyone wanting to get done asap for them to NOT see their item drop, lol. I don't like it either, but I do it. On tank, on heals on DPS. I get my daily bonus quicker so I can move on to other stuff.

What was said earlier though about heals controlling the pace as well is spot on. I do my best to keep up, but if I can't, first to notice is the tank and adjustments are made.

Doesn't matter the roulette to be honest this is really common amongst even the lowest of dungeons, mostly roulettes. There's already a thread similar to this to this one already "Do tanks always rush"

Nah, the guy I was speaking of was definitely a fresh 50. AF geared and less than 3K HP. However, you probably did run with me another time. Ive spammed Copper a bunch lately ^^

Oh ok. I still believe that day I ran with you as tank.

Personally, I think its more a problem of player courtesy more than anything else. When I tank, I always ask if the group is more comfortable with large or normal pulls. And if they say they dont want to run fast, then I take it one group at a time.

So I'm surprised that so many people dont listen to their group. Especially their healer, if they tell you they need you to slow down youd best listen...

I 150% agree and preached this in the thread I quoted above.

[EinherjarLucian]

While grinding for Zodiac drops, I got into Copper HM with a fresh 50 healer. Tank pulled every mob up to first boss at once (after the initial lift gate). I was thoroughly impressed with his ability to keep up.

A fresh 50 healer can do just fine as long as the tank does his part and uses cooldowns and dodges aoes. And at least a fresh 50 healer isn't in much danger of stealing threat through healing enmity! It's arguably much worse with a fresh tank and overgeared DD and healers, but still manageable as long as the DDs (and the healers) watch their threat carefully.

[Rasylia]

as long as the DDs (and the healers) watch their threat carefully.

You pinpointed one of the biggest problems.

[Dayne]

Did the new WP for the first time earlier today, the tank ended up pulling 2-3 packs at a time, i didn't mind, and don't usually mind(as long as tanks dodge).

But the fault for this is not on the players, this brand spanking new dungeon is FACE ROLL EASY, especially the trash mobs, yes im a good bit over i90, but with a full i90 party i honestly believe 2 packs per pull would be a cake walk(as long as you have some aoe dps)

These dungeons are just far to easy.

Though the bosses are well balanced for the most part.

[Charisma]

You pinpointed one of the biggest problems.

You mean the one, where tanks are still pulling, when they are down to 4k HP and healer gains aggro, because he is FORCED to heal?

This is the worst type of tanks, i might keep tanks up which do refuse to use cooldowns, but no one else but the tank is supposed to get dmg at mass pulls.

[MXMoondoggie]

Most tanks are fine it's just one or two that don't have particularly great gear but insist they speed run 24/7 and that the healer is at fault for the wipes so they will tank one mob at a time or whatever. People should simply do what they can handle and not try to rush because they think it looks cool or it's what people expect. It's better to have a smooth run at pace than a run full of wipes because the Tank was overwhelmed and went down before the cast time of a benediction or cure II. With most Tanks you should be fine if you know the dungeon well. I've been playing around with different rotations and I've found opening with swiftcast and holy works quite well for a Tank that takes some early damage since it'll stun everything for several seconds taking pressure off the Tank and you can switch to divine seal and regen on them quite quickly then medica II and go do another couple of holys with cleric stance on and then heal tank again. The combo of regen spells and stun breaks for the Tank make life easier for both of you.

DPS friends who queue with moron Tanks don't help those bad situations though since they are up the Tanks backside and act as enablers to their rush and die then say the Healer is trash behavior XD.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I can't say it enough: when speed running became so popular, we were i90-100s running i55 content. Current expert dungeons are i80. Things. Hit. Back. At least now they do. And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies. Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore when you consider those factors, and last I knew, wiping a lot - if at all - doesn't sound like it's part of the speed run description.

[Zaft]

And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies.

Actually, that's exactly what higher ilvl gear does. It increases mitigation and allows for higher damage/healing output. While enemies may be stronger, we are stronger as well. Significantly so, if you're in augmented ironworks/dreadwyrm.

Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore

Big pulls will always be practical because they will always be efficient. Look at the potency on your AoE abilities and begin to multiply that by an incrementing number. As you can see, most AoE abilities become worth using around 3 or more enemies. And it just so happens that most enemy packs are 3 or more enemies. If you are going to spam your AoE anyway...why not pull the whole zone? It's far more efficient. Gear permitting, of course.

[Nestama]

If you are going to spam your AoE anyway...why not pull the whole zone? It's far more efficient. Gear permitting, of course.

Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

[Deculture]

Ah, but what if you include trash mobs that all have AoE's with DoTs (and unavoidable vulnerability down) and a 'Banish III'?

Focus target stun/silence (e.g. /ac "Blunt Arrow/Spirits Within/Shield Bash/etc" <f>) Banish 3s, AoE w/ dots are just handled with high DPS + Holy stun. A lot of things can be bruteforced so long as they can be stunned or silenced with high enough DPS.

I can't say it enough: when speed running became so popular, we were i90-100s running i55 content. Current expert dungeons are i80. Things. Hit. Back. At least now they do. And no amount of High Allagan/Ironworks/Dreadwyrm gear can make up for more damage coming in vs casting times and healing potencies. Big pulls just aren't as practical anymore when you consider those factors, and last I knew, wiping a lot - if at all - doesn't sound like it's part of the speed run description.

I was doing big pulls in my fledgling PLD a month ago in a mixture of ilvl 90 and 110 items for expert roulette without any issues - it all comes down to cooldown usage and DPS composition. The gear discrepancy from FCoB (even unupgraded poetics) is bigger than 2.1's BCoB/Mythology gear so I have no idea where you got the idea that current expert dungeons aren't efficient anymore.