Why did SE decide to make the three new classes not require base classes?

[Kuwagami]

snip

I'm sorry you took it as a personal attack but the thing I wanted to say more than anything is that people should stop (and it was you that time) to speculate too much and above all to speculate on wrong ideas.

Why wrong ? Well, while it's true that current job abilities can't be cross classed, it's only because they are quest abilities. DRK, MCN and AST won't have only quest abilities (or maybe they will, a heck lot of quests for all. But they most probably won't) thus they will have abilities that can be cross-classed.


That's why I hate it when people talk about the classes as a separate entity. Classes are the entry level of the jobs. From a lore perspective, they're different, but from a game perspective, they're the same.


But I agree that the current cross system is a bit off. All in all, there is only that much options available. A much more interesting system would be the traditional FF style jobs : one job, one sub job, and eventually some traits to take. Levelling one job will make you fine. Getting secondary jobs will allow you a lot of versatility (add restrictions like "can't change in intances" or stuff like that as they want people to stick to a job apparently in dungeons. Also, abilities would get a potency nerf as not your main job OR combos could get removed to avoid abuse like WAR sub DRG for high damages without the enmity generation). Getting all the traits will allow you to be able to adapt to situations as they come by chosing the most fitting to the instance you're planning to go against.


Sure it would need a heck more work to balance all. But it would gain a lot in depth. And it would make a real use of levelling many jobs.

[ECHOxLegend]

So let me get this straight, classes don't get any specific skills that their one job cant already use, and not advancing to a job doesn't have any benefits, and the "cross-class skills" that i'm hearing about could still exist even if all the classes were jobs , it would just be "cross-job skills" i.e moot point. SO in my opinion, keep the classes we have, because I personally like basic noob->grows->can advance->becomes something similar but different for RP/lore reasons, then don't make anymore classes, because under the CURRENT SYSTEM, there is no reason to separate class \and job combat wise because they are basically the same thing and thus these new jobs can just do all the same skill progression and RP/lore stuff but just all in 1 job without having nitpick and rework all previous classes into their jobs and changing any relevant quests/dialogue/lore to make it seem like you were that job the whole time. Sounds like a good plan to me.

[ECHOxLegend]

I thought it was weird to have a single class and job because that would imply that you pick one, then sprout into multiple jobs, I'm personally i'm ok with that system.
but in the this current system the point is to lvl, interact with the world and NPCs of your archetype and if you want something different, you pick a new archetype

personally I would make it so a job 1-60s but you have access to multiple skills which all don't need to be used, rather can't be, and this would differentiate your character between others of your job in interesting ways, maybe even break the trinity and let you be any role, the job just plays that role differently than any other job with differences in balance and stats. I appreciate I can level any weapon style I want anytime but Id rather be any trinity type I want in the style I like, though that might be too greedy.

I don't know how these new jobs are, or if they will be standard, but they seem alright without removing classes. wait and see.

[Kio]

I really wish they would have removed classes from the game completely when they had the chance during the 1.0-2.0 transition. It just makes the game needlessly complicated and difficult to play and adjust to the real job and skill set you're expected to actually play with. It's just awful game design and waste of resources to create and balance something no one wants to play nor does play.
I'm really glad to see the new jobs will not involve this nonsense.

[magdahmhara]

But I use my arcanist when doing dailies cause I love my carbuncle. Please don't take that away from me.

[Teslo]

But I use my arcanist when doing dailies cause I love my carbuncle. Please don't take that away from me.

One of the best arguments for Class removal is the fact that Arcanist is the only class that splits in to two jobs. This is problematic for a number of different reasons which have all been discussed at length in different threads, so I won't bother to detail it here. Changing all the classes into the jobs that they eventually become will mean that SCH and SMN will finally be their own standalone Jobs, meaning they won't be tragically tied together as they are now. The reason your Carbuncle goes away as a SMN is because of the way the Summon spell has to work between the two current Jobs tied to Arcanist, since a Scholar isn't really a Summoner, but an Arcanist actually is. By removing the Classes, Summoner should have more summoning options. The only thing I see happening here that you wouldn't like is either Carbuncle or Garuda being redesigned or removed (To be added again later), since they're pretty much the same pet.

[Mysteltain]

I've always been a proponent of keeping classes in as I appreciate the added flexibility of them (although the transition to 2.0 really nerfed the heck out of it from what I understand), but I also realize just how much of a... hindrance, I guess, that they are to progression in both a gameplay and lore sense. That being said, it really wouldn't be too hard to change the lore. That would, in my opinion, be by far the easiest thing to do if they removed classes. It's the change in the game system that would be exceptionally difficult to change. But looking at lore first...

Come 3.0, would it really be that hard to add in something along the lines of "After having granted certain adventurers Soul Crystals, we were able to find ways to return the lost arts of *insert job here* and they are now available to all to master." The 1-30 class quests can stay the same in storyline, and once completing the first level 30 quest you're told to go visit so-and-so as they're able to teach you a way to gain greater power, which is pretty much what happens anyway. Then, from 30-50 the job quests would change to be something else that fits more with the lore. Unfortunately, this would mean that the old quests could no longer be done, and people who are already at 50 couldn't see these new ones (unless, y'know, SE could have them make sense retroactively), but it's a give and take. The 50-60 quests would take this into account and maybe have the NPCs react to whether or not you reached 50 pre-Heavensward or post-Heavensward. Overall, it could be explained away easily how jobs are now available to all.

Then we have the change in the game system...oh boy. First off, to accommodate any changes in lore, the actual content of the quests from 30-50 would have to be changed, which means remaking around 50 quests from scratch. Second, changing the cross-class system into a cross-skill system would require a lot of recoding and rebalancing work that the dev-team may not have time for. It may actually be a bit more beneficial if that'd let them give us more options for bringing skills over to other classes, but when compared to the work it requires...I'd rather have new content, not remade content. Third, fixing gear so that it applies to jobs and not classes--more recoding of every single piece. Of course, we also have the ACN/SMN/SCH problem of how the heck that'd work, as some people don't want to lose their Carbuncles or Egis (I want to keep my Carbuncles, too, by the way), but also want to be able to separate their stats. Also, tying in with both lore and game systems, would they still require us to have a secondary job leveled to access the level 30+ quests? If not, I could see a bunch of WARs without Provoke because "lol I want to play WAR not PLD" or a bunch of SCHs without Stoneskin or even Protect. If so, players would be complaining about how other players aren't coming into dungeons or trials prepared because SE didn't require them to experience other classes and gain abilities from them.

Feel free to correct me if I'm making too big a deal of something, am missing something, or have misrepresented something--I'm certainly not a game developer or programmer in any capacity, but these just some things that came to mind reading through this topic. Sorry for the wall of text, but once I started I just couldn't stop, heh.

[Pomelo]

I just hope that they really overhaul the cross class system as well.

(dunno how the 3 new "jobs" will fit in...but oh well)

I'd love them to do another cross class shuffle like they did from beta to live (they removed PUG from BLM *cry* and CNJ from BRD *cheer*)

Every mage having access to ACN skills is boring especially seeing as Virus is crap without the trait and just gives the enemy immunity >.<

Add ROG to the roster! Death Blossom for alll <3

[Destinova]

I just hope that they really overhaul the cross class system as well.

(dunno how the 3 new "jobs" will fit in...but oh well)

I'd love them to do another cross class shuffle like they did from beta to live (they removed PUG from BLM *cry* and CNJ from BRD *cheer*)

Every mage having access to ACN skills is boring especially seeing as Virus is crap without the trait and just gives the enemy immunity >.<

Add ROG to the roster! Death Blossom for alll <3

Goad for all.

[Kuwagami]

Every mage having access to ACN skills is boring especially seeing as Virus is crap without the trait and just gives the enemy immunity >.<

Twintania says hi

but yeah for now, only E4E is a really useful cross skill :/