Why did SE decide to make the three new classes not require base classes?

[FranSeara]

Final Fantasy XI and every Final Fantasy game "just" has jobs... and they arent less complex..

when they get rid of conjurer... they wont need to get rid of the conjurers skills.. because they are almost typical WHM skills anyways..


It would be good thing, so they wont need to implement a new class for every new job. starting from lv 1 with the specific job.



because you play a class in endgame?

Yes, I've have played Archer up to T9 in endgame. All Clear. I play Mard and Archer.
Not everyone cares about endgame, most players dont. Some of us play for FUN and like to play classes in Fates and open world stuff. Taking them out RUINS our FUN.
If SE could find a way to make classes good for endgame then this "Class hate" wouldnt be a problem.

[Teslo]

Yes, I've have played Archer up to T9 in endgame. All Clear. I play Mard and Archer.
Not everyone cares about endgame, most players dont. Some of us play for FUN and like to play classes in Fates and open world stuff. Taking them out RUINS our FUN.
If SE could find a way to make classes good for endgame then this "Class hate" wouldnt be a problem.

Endgame is fun to most of us. Saying that you don't care about endgame while in the same sentence saying that you play classes in endgame is kind of an oxymoron. If you're actually playing a class during endgame content (While simultaneously not caring about that content) all you're doing is making things harder for the people in your group to clear the content. This can be fun for some people, but since you don't even care about that content, it's clearly not fun for you, either. All you're doing is throwing a temper tantrum with absolutely no reasons to back it up. What reasons you have given are in conflict with themselves.

Classes are not optimal for endgame content because the endgame content is designed with Job skills in mind. This, by very definition, means that classes aren't a consideration when implementing new content, which only means that they are an outdated relic from a system that is no longer relevant. To keep them in the game at this point is to stagnate development on new and exciting content.

I'm reminded of WoW's Cataclysm launch. Blizzard changed the entire game. Every zone was altered, every quest was changed. Old quests were removed in place of the new quests. Some zones were entirely destroyed in the changes brought by the new expansion. The game was forever altered from the ground up. Literally. Even the skill tree systems changed. There was some resistance, but ultimately everyone agreed that it was a good thing. People who got to play in the earlier versions had something to reminisce about, and new content to explore on low-level alt characters. I'm willing to bet that someone complained that changing the maps and everything in-game would RUIN people's FUN. But they did it, and it was awesome and nobody stopped having fun.

[FranSeara]

Most player never get to try any endgame stuff. We cleared Coil 1 and Coil 2 in an planned PF group. No one was held back and it was really easy with a Bard in the party make up. You dont really need two Bards. Point being is " I Did it!" Classes could just going on to become their own jobs. I hate Bard. I love Archer. wouldnt be nice if Archer was it its own JOB, made with endgame in mind? More jobs = more FUN = more choices for endgame groups to make. Also, it makes for bad story telling for a Lv 1 Bard to "Just" know how to use a bow. It makes for great story telling for a Archer to learn how to use a Harp. I still hate ALL Endgame stuff.

[Dervy]

When was the last time you used a Class? It's not about dumbing down the game or making it easier. They provide absolutely no depth to horizontal progress. Classes provide absolutely no additional complex mechanics to this game. It's just fluff. They mean nothing. They do nothing, other than provide a bit of lore. Cross Class skills can easily be eradicated and just given to Jobs instead and be Cross Job Skills instead.

In fact, Classes make it harder to design completely unique jobs. For each job, you'd have to also create a base class as you can't use already existing ones. They'd only change 5 skills, (7 in the expansion). But 7 additional, different skills, doesn't make classes or jobs unique at all.

[Xhominid]

snip

Agree with this. One of my hugest hangups with the game is the fact that Classes and Cross Classes honestly offer no true benefit compared to a Job. Even forcing us to play another class to get the Cross Class skills is just tedious because they could have easily just GIVEN the skills to those Jobs just by simply leveling, especially when they are far weaker than the base job's version already(I honestly don't want to level to 34 just for Eye For An Eye on my WHM when it has such a huge CD that it would only be valuable when in Coil and maybe some HM and EX bosses.)

It honestly feels like Fake Longevity because on one hand, you need some of these skills anyway due to how valuable they are(Swiftcast) and they don't require you to be over halfway to 50 to get. Then there's others that require you to be at 30+ to get a skill that's either somewhat valuable(Invigorate, Quelling Strikes) or just barely so(Eye For an Eye) and then, there is still the fact that a good chunk of Cross Class skills for Jobs is nigh useless anyways so it's mainly worthless.
I honestly do hope that they remove the Cross Class requirements and just give us the skills in our leveling path when we hit their level to get.

[Synestra]

When was the last time you used a Class?

Theres usually few Marauders in Frontlines :P

[Slick]

When was the last time you used a Class? It's not about dumbing down the game or making it easier. They provide absolutely no depth to horizontal progress. Classes provide absolutely no additional complex mechanics to this game. It's just fluff. They mean nothing. They do nothing, other than provide a bit of lore. Cross Class skills can easily be eradicated and just given to Jobs instead and be Cross Job Skills instead.

In fact, Classes make it harder to design completely unique jobs. For each job, you'd have to also create a base class as you can't use already existing ones. They'd only change 5 skills, (7 in the expansion). But 7 additional, different skills, doesn't make classes or jobs unique at all.

I guess I just love the lore, and would hate to see that stripped from the game.

[EdwinLi]

I guess I just love the lore, and would hate to see that stripped from the game.

current classes will stay in the agme.

Just future Jobs will not have classes.

Think of Current Classes/Jobs as the Starter Classes/Jobs (basic classes/jobs new players or new characters start out with) while the new Jobs that don't require classes as Advance Jobs (Jobs more accessed by players who have reached farther into the game).

[Genz]

Is the game being "dumbed-down" a bit?

To be more accurate, the armoury system was dumbed down back in version 1.20-1.21. It just took the devs 2 years to fully understand their own doing and remove what had become useless.

-
Now they better remove classes for every job, to keep things simple. Imagine describing the game system to a new player :
"There are 9 classes, and you get a job when they reach lvl 30, which is essentially the same as the class for most of them, and there is one class which gives two jobs, and you also have 3 jobs that start right at level 1 without class."
... when we could just have :
"There are 13 jobs."

[Prototype909]

To be more accurate, the armoury system was dumbed down back in version 1.20-1.21. It just took the devs 2 years to fully understand their own doing and remove what had become useless.

-
Now they better remove classes for every job, to keep things simple. Imagine describing the game system to a new player :
"There are 9 classes, and you get a job when they reach lvl 30, which is essentially the same as the class for most of them, and there is one class which gives two jobs, and you also have 3 jobs that start right at level 1 without class."
... when we could just have :
"There are 13 jobs."

The problem is with the way the plot/soul crystal stuff is explained I don't really see this happening - it'd be more work to rewrite those parts of the story to make sense than it would be to just leave it. They've already dug themselves into a hole and now they'll have to lay in it.