Earn what you get => Reward for your Efforts

[Onizuka]

Hello, adventurers.

I'd like to try to ask again to the community reps here something about certain aspects that don't seem to reward your efforts in Eorzea, as I've recently illustrated in my Journal:

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/rc/diary/entry?e=225669

I'll try to sum it up. It relates to crafting and in the past I had already wrote a post here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...xes-on-Quality, but I'm afraid it wasn't read, as it was a long analysis. I'll try again here in General Discussion, as it's a more wide matter not exclusively related to crafting.

In my latest journal entry I talk about these 8 tests I did, trying to obtain Horn Glue +2/+3, and I did them gathering a total of:

- 8x Muddy Water +3
- 8x Hippogryph Talon +3
- 24x Aldgoat Horn +3

If you know what I'm talking about, then you can imagine how hard it was (at least with the time I spend in Eorzea, that is not much), particularly with the horns... and those weren't very funny to get for another reason as well: after the implementation of auto-attack, if one of my Skull Sunders II (incapacitates the head of certain monsters, necessary to obtain the horn) missed, I had to hide the Action Bar and wait for the recast time of the weapon skill to bring it up again and then quickly use Skull Sunder II before I auto-attacked again. That is because if I kept on attacking, Billy would have fallen before I could incapacitate its horns, so I had to slow down the pace of combat to be sure I could destroy them. Not a good solution, really... but this was the faster choice and I was just thinking at the goal of the Horn Glue +2/+3.

And, in the end, I got all results like this for each of the 8 tests, without a single HQ result:

http://static2.finalfantasyxiv.com/a...MdGyNREBWE.jpg

If you can take the time to read the whole post, it's more detailed there, thanks.

My point is: I like to earn what I get, but also have my efforts rewarded (at least in a world like Eorzea ); so if I take my time, even weeks, to gather the +3 materials through gathering or by slaying monsters, I'd like to have my efforts rewarded as much as another adventurer with more free time might do in half the time what I did. Please drop the luck-based random factor, but create a system where the commitment is rewarded. A system that maybe knows that you're using all +3 materials (that means starting a synthesis with 300 Quality) and thus actually rewards you for this with real higher chances to get a HQ result. Would it be possible?

After one year of silence on the crafting mechanics, I'd like to have more information please. What's the real deal with Mg. Craftsmanship? Does Control do something else outside of lessening the occurrence of aetherial sparking (like, giving you more “control” over the synthesis)? Is the moon relevant somehow? Are the HQ mechanics working as intended? These questions were already answered during my tests, as you can read in my three journal entries, and so far it all appears to be a random and luck-based system.

More importantly, in patch 1.19 does the overhaul of recipes include an adjustment at how you obtain a HQ result?

I'm also excited to try out the new contents of 1.19, chocobos, airships, new beast tribes strongholds and so on, but like I always say, it's really the small things that one can enjoy in Eorzea. Well, I do, at least, and my Adventurer's Spirit I spoke about in my journal last year is always the same. Just, when I'm not exploring, learning more of the beautiful story of this world or hunting down imperials, but when I'm on a personal quest to create HQ items, I'd wish my efforts – the efforts of an adventurer who doesn't stay that much in Eorzea, but that on the long run, like I showed with those 24 Aldgoat Horns +3, with patience and persistence, obtains what maybe other adventurers with more free time could achieve doubled in a few days – to be rewarded.


I apologize if I repeated myself (today I didn't go to Eorzea to write this as fast as possible) or if I may sound a bit complainer-like: it's not the case and I'm only trying to have some light shed, as I'm looking at the big picture and at how this current system and the lack of information could, one day, make adventurers lose their patience or motivation for good.

Thanks for the attention,

Cloudio Onizuka, ever faithful adventurer

[TheVedis]

from my testing, you have a 2-3% chance at a +2 material when you get 400 quality

so with 8 attempts, you werent even guarenteed that

i dont have numbers on +3 yet, but its obviously worse

and 500 quality will only give you slightly better chances



in the end, im a crafter myself who is trying to make hq gear all the time, and lets just say its not easy to do, while i would like to see the ability to make the hq mats increased, at the same time, i fully understand the system as is and keeping those HQ mats rare will keep the economy for hq gear better and very rewarding when you do make it

[Phenidate]

I'm not 100% against randomized results, since it keeps things from being overly predictable... but in the case of things like this its just an example of how abusive the system can be.

This article actually does a fantastic job of summing up Luck in games: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...uck.php?page=1

Going off the article, SE frequently employs Luck overtly and an incongruous manner (see the many superstitions and rumors from back in FFXI like having to face east on a earth day or that eating a specific food before planting in your house would alter the results.) Whether its a positive or negative application of luck is up for debate, though I feel its a negative one given the amount of investment demanded in this case, with the difficulty of reliably gathering high quality materials and being rewarded with a marginal increase in your 'luck'. (spending a week gets you a bonus 5% chance at your desired result while spending just an hour gets you the base chance or better)

I get the feeling it partly boils down to how over simple the crafting in this game is. Considering we have 8 entire classes dedicated to the act of crafting, you'd think there would be a more developed and interesting mechanic behind the act of crafting than "crafting text adventure".

Perhaps it may be fair to say SE is gimping potential rewards for crafting because its 'too easy a system'. This interacts poorly with the amount of investment and complexity of game play fighting has in the game.

I'm hoping the devs are open to considering redoing the crafting system on the same scale they revamped combat. Right now its all random chance, with the way orbs, abilities, and success interacts the only effort it requires of a player is the ability to use the arrow keys and the enter key. Our direct input is nothing but rolling dice with different weights.

Since SE is always looking for ways to slow down or stop RMT, think of it as an intelligence barrier to entry. Making crafting require more skill to do would cut out a lot of the bots and RMT who just mash macros all day in some forsaken corner of the world.

[Scape]

I believe all you had to do was turn away from the goat, instead of "hiding" your action bar.

[Phenidate]

I believe all you had to do was turn away from the goat, instead of "hiding" your action bar.

While this is true, it doesn't address the actual problem of how little control we have over crafting in any real way.

[NoctisUmbra]

While it is true that HQs need more of a sense of control, at least when very high Quality values are attained, a lot of the proc rate for HQ depends on the attribute associated with your tool.

Increasing that attribute to very large values, near cap, with point allotment, conversion traits, and gear(rings) I have found that HQ results tend to proc much more often.

[darkstarpoet1]

yeah get 600+ quality to get nq results is a lil extreme when it happens alot.

[Phenidate]

While it is true that HQs need more of a sense of control, at least when very high Quality values are attained, a lot of the proc rate for HQ depends on the attribute associated with your tool.

Increasing that attribute to very large values, near cap, with point allotment, conversion traits, and gear(rings) I have found that HQ results tend to proc much more often.

True that may be, that it's partly not obvious to anyone who doesn't research it, and partly just insufficient for compelling game play.

Crafting isn't a 'fun thing' considering how much in this game is dedicated to it, from the inventory clogging variety of drops to the demands of time investment and preparation to do it.

We really need something more to how crafting works, and make skill play more in acquiring HQs than blind luck, stat min/maxing and the ability to hit your enter key.

[Geesus]

I have never been one to do the test and data stats but I do know this, producing +1 gear is not overly hard. As for the +2/+3 items, I haven't had any luck and just assumed it was lack of skill, gimped gear or tools.

I understand what you're requesting just not sure how SE could really change the algorithms they are already using for crafting. I definitely know I LOVE this crafting system much better then XIs. xD

[RabidSquirrel]

This article actually does a fantastic job of summing up Luck in games: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...uck.php?page=1

Interesting article, but I believe luck in games can be even more generalized with a gradient between "luck that can be controlled by the player", and "luck that can't be controlled by the player."

Also using Tetris as an example, is a perfect display of luck that is controlled by the player. You don't choose which blocks fall, but you're able to make due with this by placing the blocks where they fit the best. The control comes in the form of allowing the player to place the blocks where they want. And thus, the player can perfectly account for the random element of the game.

The current crafting system has very little player controlled luck, which drives me up a wall sometimes. Not really in terms of HQ, but just in terms of some really unlucky synths. I don't normally screw up a synth, but the once every 15-20ish times is still really discouraging. The player should always feel like they have influence over the outcome of the game.