I want to stop playing Summoner.... But I cant

[Viridiana]

Bio + Ruin is strongest for up to 15s
Bio + Miasma + Ruin is strongest for 21s
Bio + Miasma+ Bio 2 + Ruin is strongest past that, or if you need to Fester.

I had a nice big post typed up about why this is wrong. Then my computer crashed. Again. So, I'll summarize. All that follows assumes that you know the target will die in 15 seconds (or enrage and all your dots are about to vanish, or something).

Bio, 5xRuin is 600 potency and costs 501 MP. That's about 1.2 potency/MP. Not horrible, but not the best.
Best damage is Bio2, Bio, Miasma, 3xRuin at 700 potency (You can switch B2 and Miasma. If they don't run full duration the order doesn't matter). This costs 635 MP, though, and that only gives you about 1.1 potency/MP. More damage, less efficient (again, over 15 seconds only).
Most efficient was, iirc, Bio, Miasma, 4xRuin at 680 potency for 555 MP, or 1.23 potency/MP. I want to say that Miasma->Bio was second best efficiency at the same MP cost for 5 less potency.

So, plenty of combinations are simultaneously more potent and more efficient than Ruin spam. This should not be a surprise to anyone remotely familiar with Ruin.

[Lavieh]

Bio and Miasma will meet a single cast of ruin at the 6 second mark and will only go up from there
Bio II will meet a single cast of ruin at the 9 second mark.

Assuming you want the most bang for your buck

Bio > Miasma > Bio II would be the best triple hit combo up to around the 15 second mark in a fight.
Below that Bio > Miasma > Ruin Spam would be best if the mob lives 11 seconds
Bio > Ruin Spam is only good if the mob is alive sub 10 seconds.

[Judge_Xero]

I graphed it out to get a good idea of efficiency - Other than I didn't add the 20 Potency for Miamsa cast.

[Delta041]

Thanks for the graph. I've been wondering about what to do with half dead trash with no dots.

[point09micron]

Thanks, I updated my post.

1404 Potency per mob is some great front loaded damage. I'm curious what type of numbers/rotation a BLM would perform after that initial burst, and how long the recovery would be Transposing into Umbral I.

Recovery wouldn't be any longer than any other rotation ending in Flare. Transpose, and you have some MP back in 3 seconds or less. Toss a Thunder or Blizzard if you want, hard-cast Fire III and you're back to the start of the regular rotation. It would be a while before you could do anything so excessive again, but it's easy to end any rotation with a single Flare > Transpose.

[Viridiana]

I graphed it out to get a good idea of efficiency - Other than I didn't add the 20 Potency for Miamsa cast.

How. . .are you getting 1.18 PMP for Ruin? 80/79=1.012. . .

Your Bio+Ruin number accidentally adds a 50 instead of a 40 at the 7 second mark. 2x106+6x79=686 MP. 760/686=1.11 PMP. Of course, if you end it before casting the second Bio, it's 720/580=1.24 PMP.

What you have labeled as BM+Ruin is. . .5 Ruins and 6 ticks of each dot? Are we pretending to start from scratch here? If so, you're not getting both dots to tick at the 2 second mark like you have shown. If not, you should be showing the second tick at the 4 second mark like you show for Bio. I'm actually not sure what you have going on here because your dot ticks are all out of wack; more than once you go more than 3 seconds at a time with no ticks. Anyway. . .850/634 does equal the 1.34 PMP you show.

And now I have to get ready for work, so I can't actually check the last one.

[Judge_Xero]

Recovery wouldn't be any longer than any other rotation ending in Flare. Transpose, and you have some MP back in 3 seconds or less. Toss a Thunder or Blizzard if you want, hard-cast Fire III and you're back to the start of the regular rotation. It would be a while before you could do anything so excessive again, but it's easy to end any rotation with a single Flare > Transpose.

Just doing some quick numbers then, between BLM recovery and SMN being able to continually Dot further Bennu's, as long as SMN dots get to tick for 15 seconds or more and including the loss in AOE as Bennus die, SMN can gain 200 Potency per set of Bennu's over BLM rotation.

So ~800 Potency over the course of the Bennu's - So from that 1400 Potency from BLM can do at the start, SMN can catch up to within ~100 Potency of that over the life of the Bennu's. But BLM will still have 100 Potency X the number of initial Bennu's (400 Potency)

So I'd think SMN can catch up on that 400 Potency somewhere.

[Judge_Xero]

And now I have to get ready for work, so I can't actually check the last one.

Lol thanks for the critique. TBH I'm not sure what I even calculated for those PPM.

It was a lot of work to create the timeline and input all the entries so it's no surprise if I made any errors. I do see where 50 potency got added @ 7s for that Bio tick lol. At least it only throws off the whole line by 10 potency.

What makes it kind of difficult to read is that I should have made it a 0.5s scale. That would have split up the 3s dot ticks and the 2.5s GCD a lot better.

For simplicity on the Bio + Ruin line, I made Bio tick @ 1s (because the SMN got lucky and cast right on the server tick, hurray for instant cast)

The MB +Ruin line is messed up at the start, I didn't notice it in that clump.
It shows 75 Potency 1 second early.
It should be Miasma 2.5s Cast into B - Giving a tick @ 3s for 75 Potency (instead of showing 75 potency @ 2 seconds) At least it doesn't mess up the rest of the line.

TBH it wasn't anything scientific, just more for my own reference of X>Y in this situation etc.

[Sleigh]

I still think SMN has the edge over BLM for T12 Bennu Phase. Assuming you're pushing 4 Bennus

Aiming for 3 Bennu, a GCD off this week. Will be 3 next week, something which we wouldn't be able to do with SMN (which is the biggest DPS increase of all).

The thing about add phase, SMN vs BLM, you can't actually utilize either of them to their full potential. It's not, who does more on 4 targets in X time frame, BLM or SMN; both of them can destroy all the small ones in short order by themselves and have to throttle their AoE. As BLM I can only do a rotation with CDs then an extra one, after which I am forced to single target with my rotations ending in Flare. At that point it's about who kills big Bennus faster, BLM or SMN, and considering they only live about 10-15s SMN can't contribute as much as BLM shooting out 1200 damage Fire 1s every 2.2s (6K+ on a Bennu getting focused, SMN has a hard time doing that much in a limited time frame without spending CDs which won't be up for every big Bennu).

Regardless, BLM will still do more total damage in the fight, still help push Phoenix quicker, and better help skip the 2nd dodge phase that groups shouldn't be getting these days.

T10 Phase pushes are annoying, but you know they are there. I cringe when I see a SMN throw all their Dots on Imdogud just before an add phase. We have Ruin for a reason and just Bio + Ruin is stronger than all the Dots + Ruin for a whole 15 seconds. (including cast times to apply them).

Oh definitely. It's still an unfortunate side effect of their damage which is a negative, one which BLM doesn't get impacted much by.

I realize I'm talking from the perspective of an overgeared group but that's what stings the hardest for me, picking SMN will actually impact my overgeared group, it's not "just" less DPS, it's less DPS and more mechanics. To me and for a lot of groups that's almost as relevant as progression BLM vs SMN since this is our FCoB for the next 5 months unless something's done.

[Judge_Xero]

Aiming for 3 Bennu, a GCD off this week. Will be 3 next week, something which we wouldn't be able to do with SMN (which is the biggest DPS increase of all).

That is impressive. What does that take, 3400 Party DPS?

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I know this isn't a BLM VS SMN thread, but when it comes down to it, it's the Caster position that is in question. So, what I am really curious about is, in a perfect bubble where SMN and BLM sit for average potency + damage modifier.

Here is what I have for SMN

A little note on Ifrit potency - Burning Strike is 120 Potency and yet it only does ~200 Damage @ i111 and yet a SMN spell @ 120 Potency would do ~400 Damage so for this example we will treat Pet Potency as half it's listed potency to equalize it to SMN damage. (to compensate for the Def/Mdef difference)

20 Potency/s for Ruins (4 minutes @ 2.4s GCD = 100 Casts - 60 of which are Ruins - 60% of 80 Potency/2.4GCD)
15 Potency/s for Festers (900 Potency/min = 15 Potency/s)
46.67 Potency/s for DoTs (B2MB + SF = 140 Potency/3s)
30 Potency/s for Pet (Ifrit)
7 Potency/s for DAT BOOK

Damage Modifier of 3.5 * Potency @ i111 (Average Fester Damage of 1050/300 Potency)
Total 118.67 Potency/s - Giving a max DPS @ i111 of 415 DPS Single Target sustained.

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So I'm curious what BLM would look like. No Crits, no Fire Starter Procs, No thunder procs. Just BLM single target rotation, with a break down of potencies with BLM's damage modifier @ i111

- After doing a mock BLM rotation I estimate that BLM has 130 Potency/s rotation (not including Random Procs)

So %10+ over SMN max. (add in pacing for longs fights and there is a greater difference)