Au Ra physiology and other lore.

[Cilia]

Mrow!

Most of your logic runs on the assumption that Auri genetics function just like human (or Hyuran) gentics, and that they're controlled through and expressed by similar processes... which is just that, an assumption. We don't know how Auri genetics work, and really, I doubt they've put that much thought into it.

However, for all we know the genes determining height and muscle growth / density are on the Auri sex chromosomes... which would easily justify the sexual dimorphism Au Ra exhibit. While it's rather jarring to be sure, and uncommon among mammals, there are more bizarre cases of sexual dimorphism in nature.

Any case of sexual dimorphism can be explained by genetics. It's a cop-out, but it's there.

Anyway.

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Size and power are not the sole determining factors in a fight, that's all I'm trying to get at in the hypothetical "Roegadyn MRD vs. Lalafell ROG" fight we have going on. I know you want to think they are, but they're not.

Yes, realism only applies when the author wants it to, and Trunks lost because Toriyama wanted him to. The point is, generally speaking greater size = greater power = requires more stamina = faster tiring. In fiction.

You can't use Broly as an example either, he's not canon.

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1. Othard's western steppe can support life (considering the Xaela live there), but we don't know anything else. Is it mountainous? A desert? Snowy? Are there large game animals? How warm is it in the summer? How cold is it in the winter? Can they grow food? What's the vegetation like?

We don't know, and the thing is that it doesn't have to run on real-world logic because it's not a real place. For all we know it's a cold desert with five-ton mammoths that have super-efficient metabolic systems, who live off buried grass. They are numerous, plentiful, docile, and maybe domesticated, so there's no shortage of food among the Xaela, and they fight other tribes just for the hell of it.

It doesn't make too much sense, but neither does regularly fighting 2-story tall rock monsters with a pair of daggers.

2. See my above point on genetics.

3. That post was made probably before the Au Ra were conceived, so while I'm not discounting the possibility of interbreeding between Au Ra and Doman Hyur there's also the possibility they're too genetically different for it to be viable. Even if it's possible, in nature genetic hybrids are inherently infertile or become infertile by the second generation, so it's highly improbable that Hyuran genes have gotten into the Raen gene pool and altered their physiology.

4. I'm not saying you're wrong to disagree with the direction SE chose to took the female Au Ra (or Au Ra racial design in general), but only time will tell if it's a mistake.

5. It's just an assumption, but even if they put up an official poll somewhere, unless they forced everybody to fill out a survey asking what they'd like the next race to be like it wouldn't be representative of the general consensus. (Plus a large amount of this game's audience as well as it's developers are Japanese, and they do tend to favor the moeblob image.) Even if they did that, chances are people would lie, put in smartass answers, and / or just be apathetic towards it in the first place. Ever heard of the "Dub the Dew" contest?

Most people don't put a lot of thought into their race anyway. It's almost purely cosmetic, so people go with the "mundane," "elegant," "cute," "sexy," or "tough" race (Hyur, Elezen, Lalafell, Miqo'te, or Roegadyn) and don't put much more thought into it. Complex reasoning such as yours and mine ("I want an attractive, but still tough woman who looks like she'd actually be out adventuring.") is far from the norm.

Never said you had to use a Fantasia to change to a female Highlander or Roegadyn. Yep, doing that would just pour more money into SE's coffers... so do things the hard way. Never said doing the right thing was easy.

I'm not going to say "Au Ra are bunk" because, like most things, there are things I like about them and things I don't. They're very cool, a much more fantastic race than any of the ones thus introduced, and are rather customizable (the men moreso than the women actually, if you bother to look at certain options). On the other hand, there's the excessive sexual dimorphism that makes the women tiny waifs while the men are tall hunks... but you gotta take the bad with the good. Can't have everything. Can't eat your cake and have it too. Etc.

To answer the question:

I ask you along with everyone, what will you do if the next race is moeblob with the girls and excessively sexually dimorphic?

If that happens, then I'll be a bit upset; we already have enough inherently waifish / moé female designs. Until such a time, I will simply consider the sexual dimorphism present in the Au Ra part of their racial identity. The intentionally moé design of the females there is no excuse for, but... it's a game I'm not in control of, so sig.

[WyrahFhurrst]

Clearly the next race should have women that are much more muscular than the men and other wise look like trolls or ogres. That will satisfy everyone who complained about the female Au Ra being too "girly."

[Cilia]

Clearly the next race should have women that are much more muscular than the men and other wise look like trolls or ogres. That will satisfy everyone who complained about the female Au Ra being too "girly."

Next expansion is arctic... no no, tropical, with playable doughy walrus midget men and amazonian walrus women.

I'm callin' it!

[Mahri]

I'm going to interpret more now!

I

Comes off a bit standoffish to people, is actually just reserved and thinks hard before speaking/acting.

Comes off as eccentric to people. Is actually eccentric. Practices some kind of creative art with great enthusiasm.

I just can't decide about the tail.

crocodile tail do it do it

EDIT: Yes, this tail, as rocked by mine:

[Samcaesar]

Meow meow meow!

In order for something to reproduce, generally they require some freaky magic thing (maybe a thing in FFXIV) or similar genetics, in the case of the "races of man" being able to reproduce with each other they have similar enough genetics to work, we must assume with what SE has given us, and the Au Ra are still a "race of man" therefore have similar enough genetics. I don't think they have, it's their fault for making no sense though, not the player who delves too deep and finds inconsistencies.

Perhaps, it's how humans have their sexual dimorphism. It still doesn't explain why the Xaela are so radically different whenever it doesn't take a genius to realize making babies with certain people makes certain babies. Sentient beings have the capacity to realize this and there's no good reason why the Xaela wouldn't either attempt to mate with the strongest mate (assuming the environment supports it) or the less resource intensive mate (as the environment would demand it)

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But size and power are massive contributors to a win. It's why assassins doesn't go into direct combat, it's suppose to be quick and accurate because they're lightly equipped and can't defend themselves. Speed factors in, but it's much less important. Like I've said in other posts "If the Auri men were the strength of the Xaela, while the women were the speed, all opposing force would have to do is balance the speed with strength and they'd dominate."

And Toriyama could have decided just as easily that Trunks wins because Cell was too cocky, just as "realistic" because it's Dragon Ball, it hardly ever makes sense.

Besides, you keep bringing up this concept of "more dense muscles" which would be just as heavy as muscles capable of the same power out, which means they require the same amount of power to move. A dense rock weighs more than a less dense rock of the same size.

And this is the problem with retcons. Making things one the fly then deciding those things don't exist creates logical inconsistency, for example even if Broly isn't canon, he still has a power level which is a thing in the universe, he's still theoretically vastly stronger than anyone under a 1.4bil Power Level which vastly higher than Cell at his max. DBZ isn't a good argument point.

Perhaps a better example of realism is Berserk and it's universe. Heck it even covers our "Stronger vs Faster" argument with Guts and Griffith or Serpico without resorting to such weird measurements like Power levels.
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1. It can't be too barren, there's enough life there to support a good bit of Xaela as they've been "Warring" which probably implies it's quite a bit of Xaela tribes. It might be snowy, it could be a desert, it is not mountainous except for the possibility of it being surrounded by mountains, Steppes are flat. We don't know, but what we do know is nomadic cultures function in a certain way that doesn't match up with Xaela culture.

Again, the best fantasy is one grounded in reality. Why care about a story where anything could happen for no reason? It removes plausibility and prevents a world from actually being immersive. If SE somehow explained all of that perfectly then I've got no reason to complain, til then, just as people complain about plot holes in anything, they ought to complain about nonsensical lore.

Sure it does! If we're talking about Titan he's a primal, all primals are are just Aether of a certain type manifested into the physical plane. He's alive and our daggers disrupt his form, slowly weakening it til his form is disrupted and released back into the Aetherstream til he's summoned again. Aether does some weird things, one of them is gives life and all the wonderful pain that comes with it to inanimate objects. Enough pain and the being collapses.

2. Cop-outs shouldn't be okay, it's lazy story telling and the consumer doesn't deserve that.

3. If Roegadyn and Lalafell can make babies (Talk about hot Skitty on Wailord Action there!) then the Au Ra could make babies, they are a "Race of Man" as all PC are. Though it does seem like they were planned after that post was made, but I also doubt they'd recon that answer. Maybe we could get some answers in the future, but with the info we have now, the Au Ra are a "Race of man" and can crossbreed.

4. Fine, I suppose I'll wait on that one.

5. But that's perfect, open up polls so that if people actually care, they can answer. SE has to listen to the audience outside of Japan though, why bother even porting the game over if they don't care about our opinions? It'd be a lot of work to sort through those smartass/troll answers, but the dev team of FFXIV pride themselves on "Listening to the fans", it's what should be expected of them.

If people don't put much thought in it, why does SE bother catering to them? Why not listen to fans who actually put the dedication crafting their character the way they want besides just hitting randomize a few times til something looks nice? Money shouldn't be the answer, it's a bad sign if it is.

That's exactly what SE wants you to say though. "Sure they could be better, but I'll settle." They've got no reason to change then, they've already hit the minimum bar. I'd be willing to settle if the options were actually slightly reasonable, instead we've got one "meanfase" and a height range of 5 inches for the "warriors", which is hardly the great levels of customization a lot of people expected for the Au Ra due to SE's words. The good's gotta outweigh the bad for me to settle, the Au Ra have been far too much of a disappointment with their girls for me to accept it as it is.

We know SE's reasoning for the Au Ra, and I highly doubt that's going to change. Currently, we've got to let SE know "Hey the Au Ra's designs are bunk and don't make much sense, please make their body shapes make sense (Either through additional and more indepth customization or a complete redesign of the Xaela) and attempt to make the races not like this again." Now while that might as well be a miracle if SE would ever actually do it, much less get the fans to actually support that gesture in mass. I'm in the minority here, I know, but I wish I felt like SE would throw a bone to those minorities who want those sorts of things, it shows honest dedication to every fan, not just the majority.

Besides, SE's reasoning on the Au Ra is flawed anyways. The men aren't anything near Miqo'te or Hyur, so what's the deal? Alternatively, if they made the Xaela like Highlanders and the Raen like Midlanders, it's literally the best of both worlds.

One must work within their situatedness to get what they will for, least they end up existing in bad faith.

Snip

Hi and welcome! You can get around the character limit by editing your post! Super useful as you can see from one of the several posts in this thread.

Interesting input on the evolution of dogs! Didn't know about that!

The thing about that is nomadic cultures don't have those sorts of gender roles, beauty is a thing, but strength is also emphasized, strength in the fields, at home, and even in war for women. They really can't afford to have women with the way the Xaela girls are, petite, waifish, "something that looks like it needs protection", they wouldn't survive.

[jomoru]

1. Othard's western steppe can support life (considering the Xaela live there), but we don't know anything else. Is it mountainous? A desert? Snowy? Are there large game animals? How warm is it in the summer? How cold is it in the winter? Can they grow food? What's the vegetation like?

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Steppe have a real meaning its not a random term. Thanlan is generally called a desert. The Shroud is a forest. Islands are called islands. Mountains are called mountains. We know exactly what a Steppe is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steppe

Now there might be giant mammoths and lots of food but we know there aren't mountains and deserts because its a friggen steppe.

[Kaiser-Ace]

So a steep is a grass plain like what the Apache and Mongolians lived in.

This still would permit the genetic speed vs power scenario since a smaller build is much quieter for stalking prey (and easier to conceal).

While the more physically endowed males would likely be the frontal force to bring large game down the females smaller frame would be better for stalking and tracking since they'd make less noise.

The females under that logic would also be ideal for stealth operations since, again, being smaller makes it much easier to hide and stay quiet.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Mhm, they also have the notable feature of grazing herd animals, bison in the case of Native Americans and sheep, goats, cattle, and yaks with the Mongolians.

Where would they hide though? Lush and large vegetation is sparse in Steppes. If we're talking quietness, well, Auri men are hardly walking one men bands, and it's not the hardest thing in the world for a larger person to be stealthy. They're tall but they're certainly not Roegadyn.

Assassination isn't something generally used to take out enemy troops, mainly heads of power. Chances are if they were so aware of the constant threat of stealth, all they'd need is enough men to box in the assassin and deal with her, because she more than likely isn't strong enough to overpower the male if there's a Speed vs Strength dynamic with the sexes.

Plus considering the way the Auri horns function in enhancing hearing and special recognition capabilities, it'd be pretty difficult to sneak up one one, much less many. Stealth doesn't work offensively with the Au Ra due to their horns.

[jomoru]

So a steep is a grass plain like what the Apache and Mongolians lived in.

This still would permit the genetic speed vs power scenario since a smaller build is much quieter for stalking prey (and easier to conceal).

While the more physically endowed males would likely be the frontal force to bring large game down the females smaller frame would be better for stalking and tracking since they'd make less noise.

The females under that logic would also be ideal for stealth operations since, again, being smaller makes it much easier to hide and stay quiet.

Well if we are going to use real world examples then well the males are kind of well crap for the steppe. The females have a more Mongolian/Native america build. And Steppe nomads in Eurasia generally were all about being small mobile killing machines vs big bruisers. They made significant use cavalry, there's a reason why you don't have people like the Rock as Jockeys.

So building on that I'd imagine Xaela males are more home bound protectors of camps. Excellent at defensive strategies being larger and having less need to move. The females are the attackers, archers and lancers using their mounts to easily make up for the male size difference.

[Cilia]

Angry cat noises!

Not going to get further into the interbreeding things, because Lalafell x Roegadyn just makes no sense and there's no word on whether or not Au Ra can interbreed with other races (yes they're a "race of man" but they're radically different from any other race), so as far as I'm concerned it could go either way.

In regards to the sexual dimorphism, you're still running on the assumption they should practice eugenics like the Seekers of the Sun clans. We don't know that. Does it make sense for the Xaela to breed for stronger, fitter specimens (male and female alike)? Yeah, it does. But since when has every decision people made in regards to mates made sense?

... especially since what I interpret from their lore snippet (their "fiery wills") the Xaela are more emotional than the Raen.

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Not underestimating the value of size and strength, but they're not all it takes to win a fight. Balancing speed and power isn't always the right option, either, because if you can't compensate for your shortcomings (or, the opponent's superior fields are too much to compensate for) you'll lose.

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1. We don't know what Xaela culture is like yet. Still. So saying real-world nomadic cultures don't match up with their lifestyle is jumping the gun, and they don't have to match up to a real-world nomadic culture anyway.

The best fantasy is one grounded in reality, but there are always going to be things that don't have to make sense or it's not fantasy. How are there floating islands in Ishgard? How do Dragoons jump so high? How do dragons fly with those tiny wings and huge body mass? Why doesn't Raubahn go into shock when his arm gets lopped off? Why doesn't he bleed out fighting Ilberd (with the increased heart rate and massive open wound)? Etc etc. Physiology is another thing, but... it doesn't have to make sense.

Titan was originally what I had in mind, but there's also the rock golems. And no matter how you want to justify it, stabbing a rock monster with daggers should be ineffective.

2. It's a bad excuse, that it is. I don't deny it. But it's an excuse all the same, and if they have to (or want to) use it, they can and will. I can tell them it's a cheap excuse, but I highly doubt it'll change anything.

3. Possible but I assume negative unless we have official conformation. Either way, I did point out that genetic hybrids are infertile or become infertile by the second generation, so Raen physiology being altered by the introduction of Hyuran genes is still improbable. (Yes it's a fantasy world so this might not be the case, but if you want to apply real-world logic to it that's not something you can ignore. Even fantasy worlds sometimes apply this, as is the case with D&D half-dragons.)

5. I'm not saying the devs don't or aren't listening to the international audience (why do you think the Auri males are ruggedly handsome when the Japanese don't consider that... well, all that masculine?). A poll might help, but it could also be inviting trouble as it's flooded with troll answers like "doughy walrus midget men" and end up not being worth the effort. Remember "Dub the Dew."

(Though seriously, I'd love to see a playable doughy walrus midget man, just for lulz. I will name him Mr. Hamhands.)

SE caters to the people who don't put a lot of thought and effort into their characters because it takes a lot less effort. Instead of putting out a poll (which not everyone will pay attention to), screening out troll answers, and hoping they get an accurate reflection of the popular consensus, they can just draft up a design matching the most popular tastes by numbers. Or, just go with whatever the artists feel like doing, or the writer feels like introducing.

While getting "the best of both worlds" is ideal, it's rarely an option in reality. You have to give something up to get something; in this case, some people would not like having Xaela women be more like Highlanders, and the artists probably would not feel like making another tough female model people are going to mostly ignore. It'd also push back the release date when it was already pushed back from Spring 2015, so the fans would be upset over the release date being pushed back again for a model a lot of people aren't going to use.

There's no easy answers in the real world.

Anyway, since we've had pages upon pages of female Au Ra, figured I'd post what I'll go with if I decide to change to a male instead of a female, shake things up, y'know...