SMN mp needs sorting out

[Ryans]

I disagree. Why should BRD be required in all progression groups?

It already is? If you don't need a bard for the melee than you aren't going to be running out of mana as a summoner, either. So this thread doesn't apply to those fights.

I'd ideally like to see actual support classes. That is a completely separate issue, though.

[Viridiana]

It already is? If you don't need a bard for the melee than you aren't going to be running out of mana as a summoner, either. So this thread doesn't apply to those fights.

I'd ideally like to see actual support classes. That is a completely separate issue, though.

That's what I'm saying. >_>

Optimal right now is PLD/WAR/WHM/SCH/MNK/NIN/BRD/BLM, at least on fights requiring two tanks. Someone pushing progression please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Now, PLD/WAR could be WAR/WAR or PLD/PLD without affecting too much. WHM/WHM is viable, SCH/SCH is less so but still probably works (Galvanize not stacking is still an issue). But you won't see any progression groups running without a BRD. In 2.0 and 2.1 BRD was the safety net of the group, only needed if something went wrong. In T8 and onward, though, it started becoming a required class in order to beat enrage timers. I'm asking for a return to how it was in 2.0. Whether that means shorter fights or more self-sufficiency for the other classes is up to the devs, but I don't see any reason that a BRD should be required in every single raid instance.

[Krr]

That's what I'm saying. >_>

Optimal right now is PLD/WAR/WHM/SCH/MNK/NIN/BRD/BLM, at least on fights requiring two tanks. Someone pushing progression please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Not pushing FCOB, but MNK/MNK is the melee DPS comp I've heard used by most world firsters, but otherwise I believe that's how it goes. Things are pretty flexible now that i120 is prevalent, though.

Except you always need a BRD. Literally. It's the only 'mandatory' job in the game right now for coil content, because there's no other viable method of TP restore post NIN nerf.

[SongJoohee]

Not pushing FCOB, but MNK/MNK is the melee DPS comp I've heard used by most world firsters, but otherwise I believe that's how it goes. Things are pretty flexible now that i120 is prevalent, though.

Except you always need a BRD. Literally. It's the only 'mandatory' job in the game right now for coil content, because there's no other viable method of TP restore post NIN nerf.

Most world first groups used mnk/mnk this time as nin released the same patch so people were still levelling learning and gearing the job. Nin/Mnk will likely become staple for the fringe progression groups with the numbers that the best nins do (see here: https://twitter.com/Lucrezia_Alex/st...70547012562944), dragon kick is too valuable to drop mnks.

[jlewiss]

That's what I'm saying. >_>

Optimal right now is PLD/WAR/WHM/SCH/MNK/NIN/BRD/BLM, at least on fights requiring two tanks. Someone pushing progression please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Now, PLD/WAR could be WAR/WAR or PLD/PLD without affecting too much. WHM/WHM is viable, SCH/SCH is less so but still probably works (Galvanize not stacking is still an issue). But you won't see any progression groups running without a BRD. In 2.0 and 2.1 BRD was the safety net of the group, only needed if something went wrong. In T8 and onward, though, it started becoming a required class in order to beat enrage timers. I'm asking for a return to how it was in 2.0. Whether that means shorter fights or more self-sufficiency for the other classes is up to the devs, but I don't see any reason that a BRD should be required in every single raid instance.

I'm not sure what game your were playing but bard has been a raid staple since 2.0. I can recall spending countless hours sitting in wineport waiting for a bard so the group could enter t1

[Viridiana]

I'm not sure what game your were playing but bard has been a raid staple since 2.0. I can recall spending countless hours sitting in wineport waiting for a bard so the group could enter t1

You should have gone PLD/PLD, then. People deluding themselves into thinking that PLD/PLD didn't work for silences doesn't make it true. And if you needed a BRD for Cad, well. . .

[KitanaiKoneko]

You should have gone PLD/PLD, then. People deluding themselves into thinking that PLD/PLD didn't work for silences doesn't make it true. And if you needed a BRD for Cad, well. . .

You mean with those adds that ADS would absorb? Sounds like a great idea.

[Viridiana]

You mean with those adds that ADS would absorb? Sounds like a great idea.

Touché. Still leaves MNK and SCH as valid options.