SMN mp needs sorting out

[DeadRiser]

Meanwhile Black Mage is sitting in the corner...

LOLOLOLOL INFINITE MP POOL LOLOLOL DAT FLARE

[Sapphic]

Mmmm I have to argue that the game includes resources for this problem already.

Bard..

You know a BRD/BLM combo is MUCH more effective than BRD/SMN? That MP BRD uses for ballad? With BLM they use that mana for foe req which increases ALL BLMs damage plus they dont lose 20% of their own damage over the duration.

So you have SMN which does less damage than a BLM paired with a BRD cutting their damage due to having to keep SMNs mana up against a BLM which does more damage than a SMN, has zero mana issues so ballad isnt needed, plus increased by Foe req. also no drop in DPS for the BRD.

Now tell me which is best? Our long term SMN switched for exactly those reasons in FCoB.


1) Make Contagion a SMN ability instead of a Garuda-Egi. Give Garuda something else. Not to mention, Contagion is that good it may even make Garuda egi take precedence over any new Egi they add with 3.0
2) Give SMN abiity to life tap their Egi for mana
3) Give a passive ability that gives SMN dots a small chance to proc the next fester not costing a stack of aetherflow, between 2-5% maybe?

Test and balance accordingly.

[Sapphic]

So you are basically saying 21 spellspeed is better 21 piety? If you look current gear. Only choice changing accuracy is with spellspeed. Only item that have det/crit at same time is earrings that drop from the turn 12 and even that part does not give me accuracy because i m using 110 pvp earrings at the moment. If you play with SMN urself u should know how poor our gear is and how difficult it is. Lets think about little. if you win 52 potency every min that is 3~ more dps overall and if 21 crit give u like 1.5%(if every 14 crit is 1% crit) more crit chance 400 dps x 0.015 crit chance increase x 0.5 damage = total dps increase with 3 dps. So with that theory it increase almost as much as crit if you do 400 dps with your smn. Not sure if this is correct way calculate this but i see piety more worth than spellspeed myself.

With testing over an hour period, it worked out as 30 =1% crit chance. Using auto attacks and zero buffs of course.

Albeit that was with MNK, with how simplified stats are, I would be surprised if it is different for casters. Harder to test over a protracted perid with casters as you cant leave em AFK attacking the dummy XD

I would have to do more testing incase the increase isnt linear. As that was just a preliminary test.

[Sapphic]

Except they're not in a horrible situation. You do fine in T10 and T11 as well, easily meeting the enrage requirement and more. People just love to exaggerate it.

The party did, doesnt mean the others didnt cover for the SMN more Or maybe in t12 they get to 3rd phase with 4 Bennus with a BLM instead of 5 with a SMN....

SMN was awesome on t12, until they fixed vuln on blackfires to HP down from whitefire.

On Bennus in 3rd phase, BLM AEs em better to get them low, and bursts better single target on the rebirthed Bennu. Bennus during 1st n 2nd phase, tank holds em near Phoenix, melee drops em to about 25% tank moves, BRD kills em. MNK+NIN on Bennu gets em low very fast so BRD can 2 shot em in place.

Also Parsers will NEVER be accurate on dots until every single dot tick is logged, which atm it isn't.

Was mention of, what was it? 463 DPS? Well if you want to take 3rd party parsers as gospel, BLMs pushout over 500 ^^

[Mature]

Procs for spells sound good tbh and sensible at the same time and not to mention tri disaster needs to make more damage because right now to me is a Holy but with a useless damage (even ice 2 makes more damage ). Would be good if pets can give you MP regen. That could work out well. At the same time I I would like to use ifrit more often but dropping my dps due to contagion no present sucks.

[Crevox]

Was mention of, what was it? 463 DPS? Well if you want to take 3rd party parsers as gospel, BLMs pushout over 500 ^^

The highest recorded BLM DPS on Turn 13 is 515.2, with most good BLMs doing 450-490. The person doing 515.2 has an item level of 126 and a Dreadwyrm weapon, with both a NIN and a BRD in the party to inflate that DPS. I'm item level 119 with a Zodiac weapon, with just a BRD. Not only that, I am still forced to wear some VIT accessories in order to maintain a high enough HP pool because of lack of Manawall/Manaward, and a lack of Dreadwyrm gear (so my item level is even lower than 119). This makes the 515.2 DPS completely understandable.

Also Parsers will NEVER be accurate on dots until every single dot tick is logged, which atm it isn't.

The parser is actually extremely accurate now. Yes, it's nowhere near perfect, there's a lot of estimates, but it actually would be showing your DPS lower, not overshooting.

If people don't even know how much DPS they're actually doing, how can they even make an informed decision on whether or not SMN needs a buff?

[Felis]

This is all the more reasons classes need to be abolished. They can't tweak SMN without messing with SCH at the same time. This stuff needs to be addressed...seriously. :/

It should be no problem to give a higher MP bonus to the soul stone. Or give the SMN a better MP Recovery skill after lv50.
Both options would not affect SCH.

[ZhycranaDranix]

"They can't tweak SMN without messing with SCH''

Majority of our traits don't benefit us , The increases that the WHM gets with MND I'd rather have than the plus on INT.

So yeah we've already been messed with even if it is minimal

[BlaiseArath]

Meanwhile Black Mage is sitting in the corner...

LOLOLOLOL INFINITE MP POOL LOLOLOL DAT FLARE

Just going to quote this...

BLM has very close single target DPS to us (probably more if the fight lasts more than 5~10 minutes), and way better AoE DPS, and have absolutely no ceiling on their MP pool capabilities like we do. They can cast, unhindered, into infinity... even if they mess up and error on their rotation, they can rebuild their MP in a matter of seconds and continue the rotation. This is balance? I'm not asking for a BLM nerf but the fact they have such high sustainability and DPS while we have to chose between actually doing damage (Fester) and keeping our MP reasonable for a few seconds longer (Energy Drain) is garbage.

And no, they don't have to give our buffs to SCH, we have Job related Job Abilities already that aren't shared, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to give us Job-specific Job Traits either. Perhaps give SMN a "Enhanced Refresh" Trait that increases the amount of MP recovered per tic in or out of combat. I'm not asking for an infinite ceiling like BLM, so the MP tics would need to be balanced by SE, but its pretty bogus that no matter how well you manage your MP/Rotation on sMN, on any endgame fight you're going to be nerfing the BRD or suffering your own DPS loss.

Perhaps an even easier solution to all this would be to remove the silly "Nerf bards damage" effect from Songs... so they could use them unhindered and actually support he group play/support mentality. I think that would go a long way to solving both the Melee and Magical sides of this "Running out of resources" stuff. They'd still be limited by their MP pool, but at least I wouldn't be robbing them of their DPS, 20% of it, just to help me.

Maybe they could give BRD a "Pianissimo" Effect like in XI, where their next song will only effect the person they target, in exchange, it costs 1/2 the MP and doesn't nerf your damage?

[Mature]

Giving the soul stone a 1k extra push on Mp would be the best solution for now I think before going into 3.0