SMN mp needs sorting out

[Roris]

I just don't understand why they can't at least give them the same MP pool a SCH has. I somewhat understand it's because giving PIE to Caster gear would only buff BLM even more, and splitting gear for BLM and SMN would be even worse especially in Coil, because it's already a pain with the MNK/NIN split, and of course the already overburdened Armoury Chest space. Just giving PIE to their weapons would probably solve it, granted it would need really huge amounts of PIE just to get to SCH levels.

The whole ACN/SCH/SMN deal was just badly implemented, shoving a DoT class into the planned magical trap class and then shoving a pet into it and splitting that again into a healer. SMN and SCH should have been standalone right from the start, if anything Astrologian would have made more sense to come from ACN due to the geometrical nature of their spells and navigation aspect of Limsa. Hopefully this will be addressed in Heavensward.

[Mature]

If you're talking casuals in PF, maybe. I'm in DnT and do you know how many SMNs we have? Me. Everyone else switched jobs. Same for every other high end guild. Other than myself, EVERY other SMN I knew before this patch is no longer a SMN. If that's not indicative of a class being broken, I don't know what is. SE said they buffed DRG because it was at a point where they were being left out of groups and didn't have a place in them. SMN is in the exact same place.

I just switched to Mnk for final coil until somethings done about it

[Crevox]

Everyone just whining about Summoner instead of actually playing it.

Did T13 last week as SMN and walked out with 463 DPS. I can pull competitive DPS on all fights, and I only have 2 pieces of Dreadwyrm.

Does SMN have mana issues? Sure it does, but it's not the end of the world and not the end of DPS, learn to manage it.

Either way, I'm fine with buffs if people want to keep telling SE we need it. BLM probably does more DPS than us at max gear levels, but also can't blame them due to the horrible itemization we got this patch.

[Fynlar]

Physical DPS running out of TP = part of the job, lern2play, etc
SMN running out of MP = zomg, job broken, fix plzzzzz

They can't tweak SMN without messing with SCH at the same time.

I don't know why people keep saying things like this when they are very well not true.

[Crevox]

It's really not as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be, it's really confusing. This is even more true because the OP used T9 as an example; T9 is one of the fights where we practically have zero MP issues whatsoever, and SMN is very strong on that fight.

Yes, we do run out of MP on fights like T10 after a while, but that doesn't mean our DPS sucks. You can manage your MP properly to make it last longer and use things like Energy Drain to maintain your pool, while pushing out optimal DPS. Just because you ran out of MP doesn't mean you just suddenly are a potato, you can do just fine, yes, even without ballad (don't ask for ballad as a Summoner). While more MP would be nice, people act like the job is just broken, and you can't down the fights with SMN because it falls apart or something, which is not true at all.

Shrug.

[SpookyGhost]

Using Energy Drain isn't optimal DPS, using Fester is. A MNK/DRG/NIN doesn't have to drop abilities from their rotation to compensate for TP struggles because they know that when their Invigorates have been used up, they will get TP song until their next Invigorate pops again. This isn't the case for SMN and even if it were, the Bard would need to play Ballad over playing Paeon, which will always be worse if you have more than 1 melee in the group. He could also be playing Foes for the BLM/Healers. If every job was made the way that SMN is then it may be fair game for SMN to make decisions about when to sacrifice damage for MP, but it's literally JUST SMN that has this problem. T10/T11 showcases the MP struggles that SMN has - this is worrying because it's endgame raiding and bringing a SMN would be worse for your group than bringing anything else. SMN is actually alright in T12 and T13 - I wouldn't say they're optimal, but they're great for the Bennu phase of 12 and the adds phase of 13. If this were just primals or something where SMN was struggling then it wouldn't really need to be considered, but since this is endgame raiding and we're only going to see MORE fights that have no breaks in them then something needs to be done about SMN's MP.

[Crevox]

Using Energy Drain isn't optimal DPS, using Fester is.

By optimal, I mean performing as much DPS as you can given the situation (low MP). You can still push out great DPS even losing 150 potency from Fester.

Did you really think you had to correct me on that?

[SpookyGhost]

By optimal, I mean performing as much DPS as you can given the situation (low MP). You can still push out great DPS even losing 150 potency from Fester.

Did you really think you had to correct me on that?

No, I wasn't actually correcting you. I was pointing out that Fester does more damage than Energy Drain, and then went on to explain how having to choose between the two for MP purposes is exclusive to the SMN job and results in lower DPS. Bottoming out by just using Fester will also drop your DPS. Thus SMN has MP issues that hinder their DPS and make them a really bad choice for t10/t11 in comparison to the other options available to fill their slot. Which is a problem, similar to DRGs, and I feel should be fixed. Sorry if I came off as antagonizing, I was just trying to use your point of "Energy Drain = helpful" to explain why SMN is in a bad spot. I wouldn't say SMN is broken, they're just in a really horrible situation in the current endgame raid which is really disappointing for everyone that mains SMN.

[Crevox]

Except they're not in a horrible situation. You do fine in T10 and T11 as well, easily meeting the enrage requirement and more. People just love to exaggerate it.

[Krr]

Except they're not in a horrible situation. You do fine in T10 and T11 as well, easily meeting the enrage requirement and more.

"You can still clear the content!" Is not an excuse for top-end groups where every single job composition decision they make needs to maximize the odds of success to maximize their rate of progress.

This was the same argument made for Dragoons when they were broken. "You can still clear the content with one in your group!" didn't make up for the fact that pre-buff, they were ludicrous dead weights that sucked away at your healer's MP and attention like a vampire, and nearly every single HC static was replacing their DRG with either a NIN or a second MNK if they even included them in the first place.