SMN mp needs sorting out

[Mature]

I understand that mp is not the only issue here but is the KEY problem for lowest dpsing. Just an example I can comfortably hit 430+ dps no echo in SCOB but if I do my same rotation on T10 I drop to 245 and hardly touching 300.... Due to the fact I already run out of mp by second set of adds....

[Ronove]

I don't think people are requesting to remove the mana bar from a SMN but make doing what we need to do to stay competitive a little easier with a little more mana. As a SMN I don't think I should have unlimited mana--I know that's not fair, but I also don't think it's fair I have to go above and beyond to stay close to our BLM in Final Coil, but when I do that, I run out of mana. It doesn't feel balanced this way. Yes, you can compare SMN to melee then but unlike melee, SMN doesn't get a personal ballad. Melee + bard need TP song around the same time so it's not as much as a DPS loss compared to if a BRD just did ballad for SMN. So we have SMN with BLM (class buddies akin to drg, mnk, brd, and nin being class buddies) and BLM never needs ballad and that itself I think is unbalanced in that aspect.

Regardless, yes BLM have to go into Umbral to get MP back but their Blizz III, Blizz I still does about the same or more damage than an Energy Drain if I recall (I don't have time to do my own testing). After one Blizz III+Thunder II or Blizz III+Thunder I+Blizz I, BLM have full MP to go back to their Fire casting. And that's rinse and repeat. Yes, SMN has Aetherflow but if you're already just about OOM when you hit it, that mana you get is going to be gone if you go back to your regular rotation. Yes, you can use a stack or more to do energy drain to get a nice buffer of MP but compared to a BLM's umbral stage, SMN are still doing less damage--we can't just return to our regular rotation like a BLM can. I really don't mind using Energy Drain to get my MP back; I fully know that's what it's for and will use it if I need it, but if I have to use two or more so I don't have to plead for ballad, it starts to make me wonder why I didn't just roll BLM.

I understand that mp is not the only issue here but is the KEY problem for lowest dpsing. Just an example I can comfortably hit 430+ dps no echo in SCOB but if I do my same rotation on T10 I drop to 245 and hardly touching 300.... Due to the fact I already run out of mp by second set of adds....

I think you're doing something terribly wrong if you drop to anything under 300. I can do 430 in T10 without completely running out of mana (though yes, I come close by second set of adds--our first week in there I did run out of mana but I've done it enough times to know when and where I can use my regular rotation and where I have to cut back), although I do use one aetherflow stack for energy drain during the last phase to make sure I don't run out completely.

[Ryans]

You can actually, if you think about how their MP is used and what all three have to do to regain it. SCH/SMN have basically the same regen tools and WHM has Shroud. All three WILL run into MP issues in drawn out fights if they are pushing their classes to the max possible (healing/stance dancing/dpsing). SCH may be able to delay that a bit longer than SMN/WHM but it WILL happen no matter what any of them do. The problem between the three of them now is that SMN will run dry a LOT sooner than the other two, leading to the "not playing Ballad solely for a SMN" issue. Get the SMN MP consumption in line with the healer level and Ballad would be timed appropriately for all three.

As far as the BLM MP system being the problem... whatever you're smoking I want some. Just because a single class has a unique MP system in the game that lets them cast continually, we're to completely gut that class and rebuild it from scratch (taking away that unique system) due to SMNs not being able to do their optimal rotation forever? O_o

That's like burning down the house to kill an ant. You would completely destroy what a BLM is were you to eliminate the Astral/Umbral system. No one is saying that SMNs need to be infinitely self-sustaining like a BLM, people are saying the MP system of the SMN needs to be tweaked to improve their staying power at max DPS levels to match the length of fights the devs are creating.

Again... you can't compare healers to DDs. Healers mana consumption is dictated by the damage the party is taking. Those numbers fluctuate depending on the performance of the rest of the party. DDs have a consistent resource usage.

As for Blms. There is no reason to bring a class that needs extra attention to perform as well as its competition. I think that is agreed upon. Now the only way to alleviate that is to make all the casters either have unlimited resources or make all casters need the same extra attention. That is the formula for melee. They all need bard. That should also be the formula for all casters.

[Krr]

The more I think about this the more it feels like the solution would just be to unchain Energy Drain from Aetherflow and make Enkindle not suck for its horrendous cooldown.

[Viridiana]

They all need bard. That should also be the formula for all casters.

I disagree. Why should BRD be required in all progression groups?

[Ronove]

The only problem with unchaining Energy Drain is that then it affects SCH. I dunno if that would offset how they are compared to WHM unless Energy Drain had about the same cooldown as Shroud (or half that depending on how much Shroud gives back compared to Energy Drain).

[ShinryuReishiki]

In my opinion, it would be better to remove the Aetherflow requirement from Fester rather than Energy Drain. Just put Fester on a 25s cooldown; DPS goes up a little, MP will last considerably longer, and SCH is left unchanged.

[Sunako]

Unchaining fester or energy would make no sense because we could use energy drain every time once aetherflow is up (if no bane needed) and fester everytime it is out from the cd. Other words that would make us infinite mana without losing dps in any way. There would not be any kind of purpose having mana bar anymore if you never run out from the mana.

[BlaiseArath]

Unchaining fester or energy would make no sense because we could use energy drain every time once aetherflow is up (if no bane needed) and fester everytime it is out from the cd. Other words that would make us infinite mana without losing dps in any way. There would not be any kind of purpose having mana bar anymore if you never run out from the mana.

I have to disagree. 266MP per energy drain is not going to be giving us infinite MP, especially not if its tied to a decent timer like people are asking. But maybe they just need to add better medicines with not so long timers ._.?

[RazeLandale]

I think if 1/3 aetherflows had to be used on energy drain for long fights that'd be fine, although you have to balance damage output around that. Which doesn't sound like it is, but if it were it'd be fine to have that resource management element there.