I fear for Summoner

[Brianmj]

I’m worried about Summoner because far too many are displeased with it at the moment. I’m sure you’ve heard about the job’s mana issues in FCoB, the displeasure with the incredible amount of spell speed being forced on the job since patch 2.4, or the fact that Summoner doesn’t feel “summoner-ry” enough. On the heels of Dragoon “needing” to be fixed, people that main Summoner have complained so loud that it has choked all attention. And in reading these complaints, some of the proposals to fix Summoner have the job warped beyond recognition. I fear for the job in that Square will act on these complaints and rework Summoner into something that looks and functions completely different from what it is now.

I’ve often read that the Summoner resembles WoW’s Warlock class. I never played WoW long enough explore their classes, but if this is true, then kudos to Blizzard for designing such a beautiful class. Summoner is just different from the other jobs, its damage isn’t upfront and direct like Black Mage or Monk. It’s dots ticking! I have never played a job like this before, the only other MMORPGs played for an extensive amount of time being FF11 and PSO[ver 1,2](yes it’s an MMO). Maybe RDM since I had to maintain blind and dia. But killing a monster via diseases in conjunction to controlling a pet makes for a very sexy combination. On paper it sound weird, but Arcanist does lore makes it work: through the use of Grimoires and arcane mathematics aether is manipulated into debilitating spells, diseases. That is beautiful! And how it’s implemented in game, “bio - your lungs are failing causing damage over time”, “disease - motor functions are inhibited” - this is just wonderful. I know those are just captions, but still, good job, Square.

I guess you could say I fell in love with Arcanist. Summoner is just the cherry on top. However, people that main Summoner, and are part of statics, and use parsers or are grouped with people that use parsers are unhappy. People that hold a hold onto a nostalgic view of Summoner are not happy. If you’ve read this forum, the general forums, or even reddit.com/r/ffxiv you’ve had to seen people voicing displeasure with job - not only with it DPS output, but how it functions. Being a “dot class” has bothered many people and they’ve become very loud with their displeasure. “Summoner needs to be fixed” is the line. And what those fixes entail range from removing the Energy Drain aetherflow stack requirement to removing Summoner’s base class, Arcanist, and reworking Summoner into a “traditional Summoner”. What’s a traditional Summoner? The multitude of people that proposed that can answer that question. But one thing is clear from their suggestions, Arcanist is not part of the picture. The base, which makes Summoner what it is now, has no place in the game. Screw the people that actually like playing a dot class. “Get rid of Arcanist, and turn Summoner into a traditional Summoner”, this is what they say. This is unfortunate. I fear for Summoner. I fear Square acting on people’s displeasure and doing something radical with the job. With 3.0 a few months away, that seems like the most likely point where any job changes, if they happen, will take place. It’s Square’s silence on the matter that’s most disturbing. While I don’t think Summoner will be changed in a any fundamental way, I really do hope that Square knows that there are people out there that love Summoner the way it is.

Is there anyone here with the same sentiments?

[Brianmj]

smn_bis_24

General Forums - We-have-finally-come-full-circle-SMN-s-need-help

Reddit - We-have-finally-come-full-circle-SMN-s-need-help/

Theory ACN removed SMN remade

What does SMN bring

Pole-Do you want to see the summoner class reworked mega thread

do summoners need a buff

so whats the general consensus on dps ranking now in 2.4

how is smn overall dps

[Rufalus]

I don't think they would want to upset players who like summoner the way it is. Moreover, it would take a lot of resources to remake a job role so this would always be the least likely solution given its practicality. I don't think there is reason to fear. But I don't know how to please the people who have a traditional view of what summoner should be. At the least, the new egis added can be more aesthetically pleasing.

[ZhycranaDranix]

I don't get it ? With all the mechanics in FcOB and the running around and moving I feel the SMN and BRD should be happy and more so the SMN with the sustained DPS , that's what the job is for high non stop DPS and yeah the #s don't jump off the page but you aren't meant to parse as high as a MNK or a BLM I thinks dots actually saved the worlds first t13 clear I could be wrong or world second. What I'm saying you get what you get a SMN is a sustained damage over time class

[Shikiseki]

Don't forget the other countless threads about SMN. The ones you linked are just a small potion of the big problem named "Summoner" and being SMN myself, I can understand them. I think the class would have been an extremely good Arcanist (as job, keeping Carbuncles with high end Arcane magics like Fester, Contagion etc.) - I think if our current SMN would just have stayed Arcanist, people wouldn't be complaining that much.

Frankly, the skillset of the Arcanists makes the Scholar job quite unique IMO, it'd be a shame to see SCH itself reworked. I hope they just re-style the current SMN to be an Job-like Arcanist and introduce the classic SMN people would wanna see. I think that would make most happy (aside the current MP/Stat/Identity issues).

[Shizuna]

I don't like it when people suggest outrageous things that would affect SMN's a lot, but the job is basically on the verge of becoming extinct because it's not worth bringing when you can find a damn melee or change to BLM for better overall damage. I feel like I'm holding back my group by playing SMN. That's how bad it is. No matter how I do, I'll be slightly higher than my static BRD dps, when I don't even ress or virus much. I give E4E sometimes, but that's what healers are doing right now. What's the point of playing this class anymore when I have to put in so much effort than a BLM? High skill play, but low reward.

Anyways, back on topic, I think a "traditional SMN" of FF11, especially, is not the best fit for this game; making it so that your summons are doing all the damage and managing it will not be a good change at all for SMN's. To even fit into this game's play style and mechanics, SMN's are fine the way they are designed except there are some minor things that needs to be done to them, so that there will be some kind of balance. I dunno if getting rid of ACN would solve the problem at all, and if they do, the devs need to find someway to make them unique to the SCH counterpart.

Back when I was trying to pick out what class I wanted to start out, it was either BRD or SMN. I chose BRD initially, but I always had this fascination of controlling summons/pets while attacking. So I did enjoy SMN, however now I don't really know anymore...

[Dyvid]

I don't like it when people suggest outrageous things that would affect SMN's a lot, but the job is basically on the verge of becoming extinct because it's not worth bringing when you can find a damn melee or change to BLM for better overall damage. I feel like I'm holding back my group by playing SMN. That's how bad it is. No matter how I do, I'll be slightly higher than my static BRD dps, when I don't even ress or virus much. I give E4E sometimes, but that's what healers are doing right now. What's the point of playing this class anymore when I have to put in so much effort than a BLM? High skill play, but low reward.

Anyways, back on topic, I think a "traditional SMN" of FF11, especially, is not the best fit for this game; making it so that your summons are doing all the damage and managing it will not be a good change at all for SMN's. To even fit into this game's play style and mechanics, SMN's are fine the way they are designed except there are some minor things that needs to be done to them, so that there will be some kind of balance. I dunno if getting rid of ACN would solve the problem at all, and if they do, the devs need to find someway to make them unique to the SCH counterpart.

Back when I was trying to pick out what class I wanted to start out, it was either BRD or SMN. I chose BRD initially, but I always had this fascination of controlling summons/pets while attacking. So I did enjoy SMN, however now I don't really know anymore...

Honestly SMN needs tinkering but not a massive overhaul. There is many things they could change to great enhance the job but staying true to the original design. We do have people that have a lot of cool idea but it seems a lot of those fall on deaf development ears. What we really need is a job/class community rep to bring that feedback to the devs so it doesn't get lost in the forums.

[ShaolinMike]

I tried switching my main after SMN got the shaft over the past few patches. I thoroughly enjoyed the other jobs I played (BLM and NIN) even to the point where I went halfway through a Novus upgrade on BLM and was saving alexandrite to go full on with my NIN novus weapon. In the end though, I found myself still being drawn back to playing SMN, and now I'm 6 alexandrite away from finish the SMN novus. What it really boils down to is this: play what you enjoy. I play on PS4 so I can't parse my DPS unless someone else is doing it for me, but I know this: I kick a$$ in all the content that I'm familiar with (can farm everything up to T9), I stay alive, help meet DPS checks, raise dead players when healers are busy, and keep virus and E4E up as much as possible, and I have fun doing it.

[Akiza]

Summoner as a sustained dps is a myth that players perpetuate. In long fights the Summoners damage starts off high then declines over time because of the diminishing returns built into a DoT dps. The Summoner has the same problems that the WoW Warlock has it has decent damage but can't keep up with other dps classes in high end raiding because their damage declines over the course of long fights. DoT classes best specialize in crowd control and they are also great when combined with restorative buffer like the Scholar but as a dps they suffer from the power creep, stat scaling and declining damage over time.

[Orrias]

I’m worried about Summoner because far too many are displeased with it at the moment. I’m sure you’ve heard about the job’s mana issues in FCoB, the displeasure with the incredible amount of spell speed being forced on the job since patch 2.4, or the fact that Summoner doesn’t feel “summoner-ry” enough. On the heels of Dragoon “needing” to be fixed, people that main Summoner have complained so loud that it has choked all attention. And in reading these complaints, some of the proposals to fix Summoner have the job warped beyond recognition. I fear for the job in that Square will act on these complaints and rework Summoner into something that looks and functions completely different from what it is now.


I’ve often read that the Summoner resembles WoW’s Warlock class. I never played WoW long enough explore their classes, but if this is true, then kudos to Blizzard for designing such a beautiful class. Summoner is just different from the other jobs, its damage isn’t upfront and direct like Black Mage or Monk. It’s dots ticking! I have never played a job like this before, the only other MMORPGs played for an extensive amount of time being FF11 and PSO[ver 1,2](yes it’s an MMO). Maybe RDM since I had to maintain blind and dia. But killing a monster via diseases in conjunction to controlling a pet makes for a very sexy combination. On paper it sound weird, but Arcanist does lore makes it work. Through the use of Grimoires and arcane mathematics aether is manipulated into debilitating spells, diseases. That is beautiful! And how it’s implemented in game, “bio - your lungs are failing causing damage over time”, “disease - motor functions are inhibited” - this is just wonderful. I know those are just captions, but still, good job, Square.

I guess you could say I fell in love with Arcanist. Summoner is just the cherry on top. However, people that main Summoner, and are part of statics, and use parsers or are grouped with people that use parsers are unhappy. People that hold a hold onto a nostalgic view of Summoner are not happy. If you’ve read this forum, the general forums, or even reddit.com/r/ffxiv you’ve had to seen people voicing displeasure with job - not only with it DPS output, but how it functions. Being a “dot class” has bothered many people and they’ve become very loud with their displeasure. “Summoner needs to be fixed” is the line. And what those fixes entail range from removing the Energy Drain aetherflow stack requirement to removing Summoner’s base class, Arcanist, and reworking Summoner into a “traditional Summoner”. What’s a traditional Summoner? The multitude of people that proposed that can answer that question. But one thing is clear from their suggestions, Arcanist is not part of the picture. The base, which makes Summoner what it is now, has no place in the game. Screw the people that actually like playing a dot class. “Get rid of Arcanist, and turn Summoner into a traditional Summoner”, this is what they say. This is unfortunate. I fear for Summoner. I fear Square acting on people’s displeasure and doing something radical with the job. With 3.0 a few months away, that seems like the most likely point where any job changes, if they happen, will take place. It’s Square’s silence on the matter that’s most disturbing. While I don’t think Summoner will be changed in a any fundamental way, I really do hope that Square knows that there are people out there that love Summoner the way it is.

Is there anyone here with the same sentiments?

[Problems w/ SMNs in general]

- They're a lot like WoW's Warlock (e.g. small sized pets/ DoT's), and not what FF11 players are used to.

- They're trait bound to ACN, along with SCH.



[Problems for SMNs that raid]

- General mana regen is poor.

- On-demand mp returns are meager, and not enough when your mana is low.

- Balancing the Job around Aetherflow is a bad idea (i.e. it's also bound to SCHs, which means SMNs get stuck with 3 stacks, which isn't enough to be competitive past the 1.30 minute mark w/o adds)


With no feedback from the Dev team, it's pretty much pointless to point to possible solutions, as they could just be waiting to do a complete overhaul of the Job come 3.0.

However, with other Jobs that have received buffs thus far, we've only seen tweaks to potencies/ positional requirements, which could only mean that either Fester, or more likely, Energy Drain would be candidates for increases to their potencies.


.