Are we really the good guys?

[ChazNatlo]

What kind of torture dungeon are you running?

Context. kyuven was replying to a post about how all those characters were examples of Female heroes in Final Fantasy that didn't have family as an important trait, spoke plenty, and didn't smile.

But we may be digressing from the topic.

[Sylve]

Last time a saw a fresh new ilvl 50 tank. Put numbers on each mob group and tanked them. DPS goes rage mode 'cause not big pull and said "You dogshit waste my time with your little noob pulls". We kicked the dps, i added the tank as friend after the dungeon... after two days he never logged on again. Thank you asshole dps...

(sorry for bad english)

This story amuses me, cos i had a low level DR on my SCH, hit Darkhold, Warrior Tank says "im gonna pull big" and then pulls all the trash between the start and first boss room.
15 minutes of constant fighting as the DPS slowly whittled down the mobs .................. Would have been faster to pull individual packs, since then I'd have been able to DPS instead of panic mode Physik spam.

[PKMN12]

The Dark Knight job seems to align with this darker tone. This is a Final Fantasy game, we are the warriors of light, aren't we? So why does it feel like we are becoming ever darker, even as the new astral era dawns?
.

Um, have you ever played any of the class based FF games? The Dark Knight job has always been a symbol of fighting fire with fire, that Light and Dark does not mean good and evil, it is determined by how it is used.

as for the whole community thing, welcome to MMO's. It is not possible to have an MMO where there is not a part of the community that are a bunch of jerks. It is teh price they pay in making a massively multiplayer online game.

Also, in FFXI they have Shanoto, a "good" character for all intense and purposed but an outright, total jackwad.

[HeroSamson]

Games always have two sides of each coin.

Celes final fantasy 3 snes / 6 playstation was working for the empire and so was general Leo both ended up changing as good guys end result killing Leo and well celes joins the resistance.

Cecil dark knight quote "I've worn this darkened armor for so long now, there's no mote of light left in me. Not even... in my heart" but became paladin.

[Kuwagami]

This story amuses me, cos i had a low level DR on my SCH, hit Darkhold, Warrior Tank says "im gonna pull big" and then pulls all the trash between the start and first boss room.
15 minutes of constant fighting as the DPS slowly whittled down the mobs .................. Would have been faster to pull individual packs, since then I'd have been able to DPS instead of panic mode Physik spam.

actually this is supposed to last only 5-6 minutes, even with 2 melees. Your dps must have been terrible

[saber_alter]

-snip-

I like to think the decisions i make as a player do not reflect the decisions made as a character, and i only consider the first clear of any duty "cannon" to her story (and in that cannon, rng doesn't exist. everyone gets what they want and need). while i might beat things multiple times, be an ass to a few people, and get pretty baubles while doing it; it is not my character that is doing it, it is me as the player taking advantage of the existing system using the character as an instrument. C'aeru, i like to think, would be more interested in taking a nap than running a dungeon with magical re-spawning enemies.

we are the good guys, and we should be acting like it.

i really never considered we as adventurers the "good guys." while we are called "warriors of light," what is that supposed to mean? is light "good" and dark "bad?" we kill primals is because they are aether vacuums that can do a lot of damage, but the only reason they are summoned is because their followers are reasonably afraid for their well-being. ascians and zodiark? the ascians claim zodiark was here first, and hydaeln is the invader, but we know too little to know who has the moral high ground (lahabrea is considered a radical amongst them, so i won't consider him a good example to go off of for how ascians are). They are our enemy because the mother crystal has chosen us to oppose them, and because of that circumstance they are a threat to our own existence. the garleans are your typical empire that has over-extended itself, but bringing order to the masses is an admirable goal (though most of eorzea dissagrees with their methods), and the eorzean city states have more problems than the empire as it is.

(oh yeah, there's also the part where "adventurer" is a PC term for "mercenary")

tl: there are no good guys, everything has its grey areas. sure something might have the moral high ground, but the winner is the one who is left after the battle.

[Freyt]

Terra's dad in the first half, her "kids" in the second. Her smiles are plot relevant. And she does talk.
Celes' "grandfather" is a plot point. Same as terra in other regards. Being a focal character means your voice is heard a lot. Plus you don't get to be a General by being quiet.
Tifa is ALL grins and very talkative, her "family" is Avalanche AND she lost a parent in the Nibelheim event.
Quistis is an orphan just like the other main characters, which is definitely a family issue since that fact is plot relevant. And she does smile, and she's a TEACHER, so she talks VERY often.
Freya has Sir Fratley, and again her smiles are relevant. She's the least talkative, I'll grant you, but she's not on the level of Squall or Cloud.Lulu is Queen Expodump for a lot of things so yeah she's definitely talkative. Her "family" is her little summoner clique to the point of marrying and getting impregnated by Wakka. She does smile the least I'll grant you.
Ashe's family issues...she's royalty, and the story begins and is predicated on her wedding. Also talkative as a resistance leader and one of the actual main characters of the story. One of her first promo pictures is her with a big ol' grin.

I'll give you Ashe. Freya isn't related to Fratley and he certainly isn't family. He's a boyfriend. Lulu is somewhat talkative but not because she chooses to be, but because she feels the need to inform the fools around her before they go and ruin everything she's worked for. Tifa's family being Avalanche is semantics on your original argument and so I can't recognize that seriously. She has SOME fun, but Aeris smiles more and Yuffie is the fun one. Tifa isn't a buzz kill but she hardly contributes to most of the actionable dialogue.

And Quistis I'm just going to have to flat out deny your reasoning. The furthest back you see in any flash backs, Quistis is an orphan, meaning her family doesn't exist in FF8. In fact the only one of the orphan's who has family that exists is Squall. She smiles, but it's not as if smiling once or twice is fuel for your argument, you were talking about characters like Vanille who are all smiles. And as for her talking a lot, she talks in class, because it's her job. Beyond that she's very quiet, and the game makes this a point during your rendezvous with her in the training grounds. In fact this is when she tells you that she was fired from her job which is why she became a member of SeeD in the first place, because she lacked leadership qualities. She was only a teacher for a year, and felt she couldn't connect with her students at all.

And then the game forgets Quistis most of the time. Her smile doesn't become some sort of plot point. All of her laughs feel somewhat forced, like she's trying to live through her problems.


To be honest I've not played much of 6. I mentioned those characters based on all I've seen from 6 and other things, so I have no right to argue them.

[ChazNatlo]

The females in Final Fantasy games tend to follow a maiden, matron, crone set up. the young fun one, the love intrest, and the reliable one. Tifa and Aeris flip off depending on which scene or personality aspect you want to examine.

I'd dissagree with you and point out that being an orphan means Quistis is without family. Given her young age of orphanhood, I'd say the orpanage is her family. I do however agree with the rest of the argument against her, and add that, like Faris, her family revelation isn't important because it puts her on par with the rast of the cast in her game.

[Sigiria]

The last one standing gets to decide on that. Winners write the history books

"Justice always win." Of course it does, the side that win get to decide what is justice"

[ChazNatlo]

"Justice always win." Of course it does, the side that win get to decide what is justice"

Or, keeping with the subject of Final Fantasy. "Right and wrong aren't what seperate us and our enemies. It is our different standoints, our perspectives that separate us." - Squall Leonhart

Course, as a Mercenary, that is a very convenient way of looking at morality, seeing as I imagine Norg would be a little upset if they limited their potential clientel to people they decided were morally righteous.