So BLM as AOE covered, MNK has single target... What does SMN bring?

[ViviAnimus]

Following:

There is definitely something wrong with Summoner. On my server that are almost no Summoners anymore. I do also wonder why Melee DPS needs to have a higher natural damage output. People used to say that Melee DPS has to avoid more stuff. In Final Coil this is not the case anymore. They have to do the same mechanics and everything. I don't see the justification for more damage output. The only job that is a bit more difficult to play is Ninja. Summoner in my personal experience harder than Dragoon and Monk.
If anything, Summoner should do more damage than a Black Mage or be at least below it. I would delete Raise from Summoner and give it a normal virus so people can stop crying and it can finally have decent DPS that's up there.

[Wizarus]

Simple answer: Nothing but a 3rd battle raise. Which is useless in late-game content. Healers dont need help using Virus or Eye which BLM also gets. And the tradeoff is the lowest DPS in the game when bards aren't singing, with sustained damage issues thanks to MP burn and being on a completely different lifeline then Melee DPS when bards are singing.

Once you get above Evenstar gear you immediately feel the difference between SMN and the rest of the DPS classes. I shoudn't be trying to dodge Spellspeed like its the plague, while having to put way more ACC then I should as a caster class on gear thanks to pet mechanics. There is no way you can get optimal DPS like this.

SMN is just in a bad spot right now no matter how you look at it.

[Akiza]

Scholar has all the utility that a Summoner has so utility is the Scholars priority since they are healers while dps is the Summoner's priority but since the Summoner's dps is right above the Bards there is no reason for bringing them into FCOB.

I think the Arcanist was specifically designed with the Scholar in mine and Summoner was tacked on just so SE could see if they can make a DoT and Pet Dps.

[Leonus]

Following:

I do also wonder why Melee DPS needs to have a higher natural damage output.

Well, the moment ranged dps out damages or is even with melee dps, it completely invalidates them for anything other than limit break. You really ever only want 2 melee dps around the boss. Any more than that and it gets too crowded. Ranged dps can stand kinda.. wherever. (Except in front of the boss) also FCOB just seems to be melee friendly in terms of uptime for dps.

It is generally safer to have more ranged dps than melee dps. The higher damage I think is to reward the party for bringing melee.

This is just my opinion though.

Also, smn needs a buff and I personally think they need to be able to go even with blm in dps. Good smns are still good smns, but they need some love so they aren't forced to switch like drgs were when nin came out.

Edit: Never played smn, I'm not much of a caster dps kinda guy, or at all really.

[Judge_Xero]

The example I gave is an AOE scenario.

I took it as mobs in general. "Most adds would live long enough" and not only in AOE situations, since the statement about the Gusts was not the primary.

The graph was for the statement about getting mileage out of the dots.

[Akiza]

There are almost no Summoners anymore because when SE decide to balance the Summoner around other dps jobs they ended up being slightly ahead of Bard in terms of damage. WoW has had the same problem with Warlocks since Cataclysm when the Warlocks disappeared and articles were written on why there was a sharp decline in the population of Warlocks for End Game. WoW developers couldn't figure out why the population of Warlock declined. Articles written by players stated their damage was on par with other dps but other dps performed better then the Warlocks and were easier to play.

[HaroldSaxon]

Simple answer: Nothing but a 3rd battle raise. Which is useless in late-game content. Healers dont need help using Virus or Eye which BLM also gets. And the tradeoff is the lowest DPS in the game when bards aren't singing, with sustained damage issues thanks to MP burn and being on a completely different lifeline then Melee DPS when bards are singing.

Once you get above Evenstar gear you immediately feel the difference between SMN and the rest of the DPS classes. I shoudn't be trying to dodge Spellspeed like its the plague, while having to put way more ACC then I should as a caster class on gear thanks to pet mechanics. There is no way you can get optimal DPS like this.

SMN is just in a bad spot right now no matter how you look at it.

If you actually think SMN has lower raw DPS than bard, then you don't know what you are talking about.

SMN just has gearset issues, and resource issues.

[Odowla]

If you actually think SMN has lower raw DPS than bard, then you don't know what you are talking about.

SMN just has gearset issues, and resource issues.

Yes, much lower DPS than a bard - however, a bards potency per second is WAY higher - almost twice that of a SMN's. #rekt

[Huntington]

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when SMN starts falling to the wayside again in a Final Fantasy game, seems to happen over natural progression regardless. It should be getting enhanced in the future though with the issues people are all seeing in FCoB, which is end-game raid content and not necessarily quantitative of the Job's issues in other content, but with so many being brought up to speed with the other Jobs, I guess it's just it's time as well.

I stopped maining SMN awhile ago when I found more fun in WAR and MNK, since then I've been keeping it up to speed, but I just don't see it as the best case of how I'd like it to be played, especially if it doesn't really bring much to the table besides an occasional combat raise. If it ends up being a third rate class that no one wants in their groups like in XI, then SMN just can't be used "right" in a MMORPG'er I guess.

[Sunako]

SMN have good utility against bosses that have lot downtime because dots are ticking even if the boss is flying around and aetherflow time is running unlike some classes may lose their stacks instead. Multidotting is another good utility like in turn 10 you can dps 4 adds at same time. Using limit break as summoner is really good too for example if you use LB3 you lose 10sec your own dps. In that downtime you may lose only 4 ruin cast but for blm they lose probably 4 - 5k damage if they do 400 - 500 dps. Not sure what kind of numbers smn do since i m not using dps meters myself and what i heard those dps meters can not even read dots very well.