So BLM as AOE covered, MNK has single target... What does SMN bring?

[Clarkamite]

Pets. And a book.

EDIT: But seriously though they do feel rather left out. Not sure what changes could be made to bring them more balanced in raid groups. Seems like every time SE has made changes to a class it's either made the job the best job in it's respective slot or not the most optimal. Fixed monk - now most groups won't run without one. Changed BLM - Now SMN is left behind.

[PotatoTree]

SMN has pretty good multi-target damage. As in if the mobs are split into multiple groups that are too far for a blm to flare, then SMN would do better (ie T7 archers). However, such situations are pretty rare and are not usually the focus in a lot of fights. Also it hurts their mp to take advantage of the situation.

SMN also has an advantage when bosses "jump", such as in Titan. However, this doesn't occur often, and doesn't occur at all in Fcob (as in the bosses jumps or goes into some immobile state, but I don't think the damage ticks).

People already mentioned battle raise. In Scob, battle raise was an important component in a lot of the fights as there wasn't really a penalty for dying. T6-9 can have people drop left and right and be raised back up and continue the fight. However, in Fcob, whenever someone dies there is some mechanic that makes the fight much harder, so if people are dying it's pretty much already over. Plus in a lot of Scob's fights the off tank can usually take over a MT death, while in Fcob you need 2 tanks up pretty much all the time. So in Fcob SMN's raise usefulness is severely diminished.

SMN are really really really good in PvP though. You can pretty much solo any other job due to the pet, and do insane overall damage (if played right). But that doesn't really matter for end game xD

Also remember that SMN are severely disadvantaged when there are multiple things to kill that die very fast (ie: bennus in T12, adds in T13,e tc). This is because the dots die with them and are wasted dps, but the SMN still needs to set up the dots to fester.

[HaroldSaxon]

They just need to increase the MP regen of Aetherflow (perhaps boost the initial amount and then give a small regen so long as you've got stacks available or something) and most of SMNs problems would be gone from a mechanics perspective. Gear... yeah, as Harold said either scale pets to SSPD or give them a new set. Though, given the number of sets we've got already adding another to the drop matrix would just suck. =/

I don't think adding another gearset will change much if i'm honest, its already bad as it is and they already have to do something in the expansion about it. Either more chests, a "re-roll" system, or a system where you won't get any loot for a class that isn't in your party, or a complete token based system.

[Havenchild]

It doesn't bring much to the table actually at the moment.
It is a magical variant of MNK Single target but with much less sustaining factor.

Mnk DPS tends to build up over a set fight and then balance out and stay roughly in between a min and max number.

SMN, however spikes very high at the start of the fight, then the rest of the fight is trying to decrease the DPS decline as best as possible. The longer a fight drags on , the lower your DPS, and worse situations for summoner like OOM performing your optimal rotation which in turn means you can't actually sustain well over most fights.

Damage wise, it is outclassed by pretty much every class atm, played in FCOB.

If we want to talk utility yes, it has Virus, EoE and the very terrible utility of Battle Ress.

Virus and EoE are useful I can admit but Battle Ress is amongst the most useless utility in any instance you don't immediately over level. More to the point depending on a Summoner for a battle ress is another problem altogether.

[Judge_Xero]

Also remember that SMN are severely disadvantaged when there are multiple things to kill that die very fast (ie: bennus in T12, adds in T13,e tc). This is because the dots die with them and are wasted dps, but the SMN still needs to set up the dots to fester.

It's not that bad with DoTs.

In the case of "should I Fester or Bane?"

On a single mob if your DoTs last for 9 Seconds then it's a + over Fester and you save MP. Then it just scales up from there.
Example
- Baning off Phoenix onto the Bennus
- Baning off Big Bennus to little Bennus

T13 - Selective Dotting on mobs that will die fast but you are unable to Bane and/or Fester would be a waste.
If you know how long Bthe mob will last you can plan from there.

If the mob only lasts 12 Seconds
- Bio + Ruin Spam 400 Potency over 12 seconds
- Bio + Miasma + Ruin 420 Potency over 12 Seconds + extra MP
- Bio + Miasma + Bio 2 + Ruin over 12 Seconds 405 Potency + crazy MP usage. (Fester will increase this to 705 Potency)

12 Seconds or less Bio + Ruin spam is the most efficient as long as you have another mob that your Dots are ticking on. I.E. Dots on Bahamut Prime.

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SE does need to boost the damage increase from Main Hand weapon for Summoner though. To bring it closer to BLM/Melee

[Akiza]

The Summoner doesn't have sustained damage because their damage starts out high then declines over time. The Summoner's issue is it has diminishing returns on dps throughout the fight.

The Black Mage is more sustained damage then the Summoner because they're around their min and max dps potential in long encounters while the Summoner starts at max then rolls down to their min value the entire course of an encounter. Even dps simulations show that in a shorter encounter Summoner has the highest dps while in longer encounters Summoner's lose around 80-100 dps.

[ShinryuReishiki]

Also remember that SMN are severely disadvantaged when there are multiple things to kill that die very fast (ie: bennus in T12, adds in T13,e tc). This is because the dots die with them and are wasted dps, but the SMN still needs to set up the dots to fester.

It's not that bad with DoTs.

It is pretty bad. For example, on our first couple clears of T13 most of the adds would live long enough to get the full worth of my DoTs out, some Gusts would even get a second set. With everyone more geared, the adds are all dying much faster, so I'm not getting as much mileage out of my DoTs. My gear has improved yet my overall DPS has dropped.

[Judge_Xero]

It is pretty bad. For example, on our first couple clears of T13 most of the adds would live long enough to get the full worth of my DoTs out, some Gusts would even get a second set. With everyone more geared, the adds are all dying much faster, so I'm not getting as much mileage out of my DoTs. My gear has improved yet my overall DPS has dropped.

This is an issue when trying to get the most out of your DoTs and your team mates get better gear thus reducing your DoT up time/dps. Here is a graph I made to help others understand how to get the most mileage out of your spells.

As you can see

- Bio + Ruin spam is the most efficient combination up to 17 seconds of a mobs life span.

- B2MB + Ruin Spam is only worth while when the mob will live for longer than 19 seconds, or if you will be using Fester or Bane.



The MP per Potency is only based off a 19 second scale. Obviously it changes the closer to 0 you get for any given scenario.

You should also weigh in whether or not you would use Fester with your three DoTs up. Since that is a case by case variable, I didn't include it in the graph. i.e. Does this mob have to die in 12 seconds or is 13 seconds ok.

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So as everyone gears up and things start dying quicker, you will have to shift down the graph to the point where you get the most bang for your buck.

[ShinryuReishiki]

The example I gave is an AOE scenario; there's no reason you wouldn't be able to Bane. There are two sets of Gusts, the first is a set of 3, and the latter is a Storm + 2 Gusts. In both cases the Gusts have to be tanked together. Even if they die in 10s, Bane is the most effective thing you can do. However, you're getting significantly less potency out of your DoTs if they die in 10s vs 20s. (And then waiting around doing nothing until next adds spawn...)

It's much less of an issue in a single add scenario like phase 1-2 Bennus, phase 2 Shadows, or in a multiple add scenario where you can't just kill everything freely like phase 3 Bennus (Well, depending on strategy).

[ViviAnimus]

There is no viable reason to bring a Summoner. Damage wise Summoner starts out great, but the DPS just drops and drops and continues to drop. There is no real way to get the DPS up, at all. Once is drops, have fun, because it will stay like it is or drop more. This is my experience and I am definitely not a bad player / summoner / black mage.
If you fully utilize your rotation, you will most likely run out of MP and therefore the BRD will have to play ballad. So you are causing a decrease of overall team DPS for being good at DPS, on top of that your damage isn't that great anyway in comparison to other classes. You have the advantage over Bard, but not by that much, to be fair. A good Summoner will be far behind a good Black Mage. Although Black Mages is greatly dependend on RNG sometimes. The base damage for a BLM is good, but if you want to get really high, it's more a factor of luck instead of skill.
You have a raise will can be handy will will destroy your DPS. You do have Eye for en Eye and Enhanced Virus. Pretty sweet, but pretty much useless.
DPS should focus on DPS and not pretty utility that isn't really imperative. If you want an imperative skill, try Dragon Kick on T13