Black Mage Revamp

[Renik]

why would you want an elemental wheel in an mmo ever

it doesn't add any extra layers of anything but frustration

And again this get us back to one of my previous posts, why do you need a rotation, different skills or red circles in the floor, for fun, every MMO i have played had an elemental wheel, the abolition of it is something new and as far as i know, unique to this one, and i'll repeat it, the only reason they abolished it is because they didn't have the time to do real balance work, if you look at the game, this MMO is the one with the better quality of life in the market, but most of these QoL updates came after the launch, one of the systems we have from the start is the battle system, and with battle system i mean every aspect of battle, from combat to boss mechanics, and this system is very very very oversimplified compared to most MMOs.

Edit:

Forgot something, i don't want an elemental wheel right now, i know a bit about games design, it would break the balance so badly, what i say is that the elemental wheel can't work here because of the wrong direction they took, if this game were designed correctly to support a balanced elemental wheel, no one here would be asking the dev team to remove it.

[Razard]

what i say is that the elemental wheel can't work here because of the wrong direction they took, if this game were designed correctly to support a balanced elemental wheel, no one here would be asking the dev team to remove it.

Wrong Direction? Or one YOU and a vocal minority didn't like?

[Renik]

Wrong Direction? Or one YOU and a vocal minority didn't like?

Oh look the poor vocal minority argument again, used every time someone says something against the current design, as i said, if they implemented the game with a well designed and balanced elemental wheel, no one here would be complaining about it, hence wrong direction.
i could have saved this post if you were able to read and understand what others write instead of using cliche arguments.

[Razard]

Oh look the poor vocal minority argument again, used every time someone says something against the current design, as i said, if they implemented the game with a well designed and balanced elemental wheel, no one here would be complaining about it, hence wrong direction.
i could have saved this post if you were able to read and understand what others write instead of using cliche arguments.

I keep hearing about this mythical "well designed" elemental wheel. Unfortunatly I have yet to hear what this is, or any suggestion which wouldn't break the current class balance, make it so miniscule that they shouldn't have bothered or make it so a class, usually Black Mage, just has 20 different flavours of Magic Missile.

Sometimes cliches exist for a reason.

[Renik]

I keep hearing about this mythical "well designed" elemental wheel. Unfortunatly I have yet to hear what this is, or any suggestion which wouldn't break the current class balance, make it so miniscule that they shouldn't have bothered or make it so a class, usually Black Mage, just has 20 different flavours of Magic Missile.

Sometimes cliches exist for a reason.

-give all monster 2 elemental resistances and 2 weakness (1 of each for WHM and the other for BLM). resistance -10%dmg, weakness +10dmg.
-turn surecast, manaward and aetherial manipulation into, fire, ice and thunder stances.
-make these stances low level skills.
-taking part of the idea in the op, make every stance switch how element works:
-- in thunder stance: thunder element would be the nuke, the non weakness non resistance element the dot, and the resisted element the MP recovery spells (resistances and weakness must be fixed to not break this rotation)(rotation and skill list would be practically the same)
- to give more utility to BLM, turn manawall into a trigger skill, lets name it "elemental aura", once one nuke rotation have been completed apply a elemental charge(buff) of ice, thunder or fire . upon applying the previously mentioned trigger ability (elemental aura) this elemental charge will be converted into a party buff (elemental aura (5 minutes)), fire: magic attack and physical attack+3%, ice: physical defense +3%, thunder: magical defense +3%, only one can be applied(the rotation would be changed from one stance to another only to apply this minor convenience as needed)
-whm as healer role can keep the same skills, the elemental wheel will keep the dmg balanced by itself.
- keep ligth and dark elements neutral without weakness nor resistances.

This is just one idea, not what they should so, because in favor of convenience the best decision would be leaving BLM as is to not disturb the player base who is already used to it, and applying the elemental wheel only to another job like geomancer or elemnetalist.
This addition could bring elemental weapons to the game, which could give a very small additional damage to auto attack (separated from normal damage) but not be a disadvantage when resisted, adding more flavor tho the game.

[Mirron]

I'd like to know what games have an elemental wheel to the extent that Final Fantasy tends to have it offline. The most I tend to see is different elements cause different status effects, and maybe minor aspects of damage modification, but certainly not to the extent that offline FF's do, where enemies being unable to be damaged or even healed by certain elements happen.

And it still doesn't address the simple concern that it'd result in boring gameplay. If you transported a Black Mage from an offline FF and just placed him in this, it'd easily be one of the most boring classes to play. Offline FF's are fun and difficult because you aren't in control of just one character, you're in control of a team and correctly managing the team as a whole is part of what makes it engaging. Even in other series, where the spellcasting is more dynamic, playing the offensive mage typically just winds up resorting in using the most powerful spell you have for the element that is most effective at the time. Compared to the current system with Black Mage that sounds a lot less interesting.

I will say that I'd be fine with White Mage getting Dia/Banish/other light-themed spells, so that they could do a Geomancer with Wind/Water/Earth spells, but it wouldn't really make sense from a lore perspective sadly.

[QiLymePye]

But you just summed up what the BLm is really in this game. Its just use most powerful magic spell available, out of 3 types, and really you only use ice to restore mp, soon as its full, go back to fire. Its boring. Im sorry, but I think SE needs to spice up BLM and PLD. Same stupid rotation for BLM: spam fire 1 or 3 depending on lvl...mp low, do that transpose, while mp recharge, throw a thunder spell/Scathe, mp full, transpose, spam fire...same song. Its dumb. I expected more from a BLM. And yes i know that its damn near impossible to ask them to fix and add elemenal wheel or whatever. So make spells do physical type damage, like Fire-blunt/Thunder-piercing/Ice-slash or something. just feels weak.

[Mirron]

Except that in an elemental wheel scenario you wouldn't ever use Thunder or Blizzard in a fight against Shiva, for instance. You would literally just sit there and cast Firaga. As things are now you aren't sitting there casting only one spell ever.

[QiLymePye]

but you are only casting spells really one spell, fire. Its a gimmick to make you feel like you are using more than one spell. If you didnt have to cast ice for mp, would you? hell ive gone through fights not even using ice. Now here is where SE can get creative. Lets take your Shiva ex. Yes, Shiva should be weak to fire, but why can't she be strong to fire also? Or the opposite, because said blm is casting fire, maybe during that time his ice resistance is very low, meaning if he gets hit, he could sustain good amount of damage? See i refuse to believe that we have to have it the way it is. These people are geniuses. Its about money. If all of a sudden they found out that a good percentage of their player base was leaving the game because of this mechanic issue, i bet they would find a way to fix it. They have over simplified BLM, making it boring.

[QiLymePye]

I just believe that a fantasy game where you have different elemental beings, elemental magic, and elemental weapons/armor and the element it represents is pointless to gameplay is not right. They could do things, like maybe when you use fire on an enemy it damages and does dot damage potency based off of the element of the said emeny. Same with weapons, do some sort of dot damage based on spell type/mob type. I just hate seeing a sword that has a cool name like Flaming sword of justice that only offers +1 fire resistence. WTF do i need fire resistance for if there is no "element wheel" in the game?