Revisiting DEX

[PWilson]

...So everytime this debate comes up, it is just theorycrafting.

Well, I agree with you there!

But I do likes me some theorycrafting, too...

[SpookyGhost]

Stacking any stat other than your 2 main stats (VIT and STR) will result in either a minimal increase in mitigation or a minimal increase in DPS output. Both are completely inconsequential outside of min/max world first attempts. You guys are really putting too much thought into a game that has been simplified to it's absolute bare bones. The tank that melded full DEX isn't really any better off than the tank that melded full Det, and vice versa.

[Alistaire]

Takes about 2.6 DEX to equal 1 parry. Takes about 15 parry to equal 1% rate. And parry is a bad tank stat as is. The defense boost from 120 alone makes this a very bad idea.

[Truedragon]

Takes about 2.6 DEX to equal 1 parry. Takes about 15 parry to equal 1% rate. And parry is a bad tank stat as is. The defense boost from 120 alone makes this a very bad idea.

1) I would like to see a source to back up your claims.
2) Even if we - for now - assume that your claims are correct, it seems that people speak without getting get their facts straight. We do not meld DEX for parry. The bonus DEX gives to parry is exactly that, a bonus. We meld DEX for blocking. Blocking and parry are 2 different things. Get your facts straight before talking.

3) If we assume you are correct that 15 parry = approximately 1% parry, then how the hell does that make it a bad stat. If you could meld 120 parry which we cant, but lets say we could, that is an 8% parry rate. How on earth is 8% parry rate compared to a loss of 392 hp a bad trade off?

Do you people even know what you are talking about.

[SirTaint]

1) I would like to see a source to back up your claims.
2) Even if we - for now - assume that your claims are correct, it seems that people speak without getting get their facts straight. We do not meld DEX for parry. The bonus DEX gives to parry is exactly that, a bonus. We meld DEX for blocking. Blocking and parry are 2 different things. Get your facts straight before talking.

3) If we assume you are correct that 15 parry = approximately 1% parry, then how the hell does that make it a bad stat. If you could meld 120 parry which we cant, but lets say we could, that is an 8% parry rate. How on earth is 8% parry rate compared to a loss of 392 hp a bad trade off?

Do you people even know what you are talking about.

How about prove him wrong?

I have parry closer to 13 points = 1% and DEX is 40 points per %.

Neither are saving you beyond world first turn4 progression scenarios.

If you take 140 hits in a turn, 120+ of those are auto attacks which are not concerning to you or your healers. The other 20 can't be blocked/parried or you'll have a CD ready for them.

Take 13 for example. A good DPS group will see 4-5 Flattens (tank killer moves) and 2 death sentences. You'll have CDs up for all of them. The rest of the fight doesn't need CDs or can't be blocked/parried.

Turn 12 I get hit around 120 times. Maybe 4 Revelations on me and 4 on the OT? The bennus hit hard but nothing a minor CD can't handle.

Turn 11 I'm in sword oath 50% of the fight, besides head its not a big damage fight.

Turn 10 I could probably do in full STR gear instead of i90 with proper CD usage. I know some tanks Sword oath between Rips.

[Truedragon]

How about prove him wrong?

I have parry closer to 13 points = 1% and DEX is 40 points per %.

Neither are saving you beyond world first turn4 progression scenarios.

Well I cannot prove him wrong since most of the data are either obsolete or not tested. Just look for instance at this thread. The two of you, basically saying the same thing, but with completely different values.

And look at something like valking mad which is based on data obtained from like 18 months ago from i70 gear when we all know that stats weight change with each patch.

We cannot meld 120 parry even if we wanted to. The point I am making however is that we can actually meld 120 DEX. And Im looking at the alternatives which is 1) parry, 2) c tier stat crit, and 3) c tier stat det. We cannot meld 120 crit or det anyway, and the boost from these c tier stats are so miniscule that we can basically write it off as insignificant. However, tests on DEX does not exist.

[Ellatrix]

Melding DEX on tanks is about as useful as melding Parry on BLM or wearing DEX accessories on DRG 'because it has crit and det!!'.

Just. Stop.

[Alistaire]

1) I would like to see a source to back up your claims.
2) Even if we - for now - assume that your claims are correct, it seems that people speak without getting get their facts straight. We do not meld DEX for parry. The bonus DEX gives to parry is exactly that, a bonus. We meld DEX for blocking. Blocking and parry are 2 different things. Get your facts straight before talking.

3) If we assume you are correct that 15 parry = approximately 1% parry, then how the hell does that make it a bad stat. If you could meld 120 parry which we cant, but lets say we could, that is an 8% parry rate. How on earth is 8% parry rate compared to a loss of 392 hp a bad trade off?

Do you people even know what you are talking about.

Well, it's various sources from being interested in the possibility myself, as a tank and as a crafter, mostly from reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...yo/parry_stat/ was the first I could find just glancing thru things, I'll admit I have a low need to satisfy people like you so I don't really feel like going thru all the research I looked into.

And yes DEX affects block rates as well, because I didn't mention that part I don't have my facts straight? lol Anyway, it had slipped my mind to mention it because it's as little an impact as the parry rate increase.

And parry and block rate boosts are bad because the content is such that you cannot rely on them. They do not reliably increase your eHP. And you sound like someone who doesn't even know what that is, go google it. "Do you people even know what you are talking about." Thanks, was a good laugh reading that.

[Gangaloo]

Melding DEX on tanks is about as useful as melding Parry on BLM or wearing DEX accessories on DRG 'because it has crit and det!!'.

Just. Stop.

This isn't true at all.

What is true is that DEX melding being argued over after the first week of content release is pointless. The stat boost on ilvl 120 gear and above far out weigh any benefit you get from Dex melds and parry stacking.

Also, during the first week of progression, a tank deciding to Dex meld is really dependent on group composition. For my group, we were running 2x BRD which is inferior to 2x MNK for fights like T13. Right off the bat you're suffering from a lower DPS comp despite being able to double battle voice foes your BLM.

My group really had 2 options with its current gear level and composition. Try to smooth out tank damage as much as possible to make it less spikey so our SCH can full time DPS in P1 and P2, or be presented with a situation where we didn't have the DPS to meet the enrage timer. Putting DPS stats into the PLD gear would produce a very nominal increase at best that was far out weighed by allowing the SCH to DPS instead of forcing him to come out of Clerics and heal.

Dex melding + parry rate has very little to do with increasing tank eHP and lowering average damage taken over time. It has more to do with attempting to minimize tank spike damage as much as possible.

Let's be real here... when you're in full i110 gear and didn't get a single FCoB tank drop (or healer loot for that matter), 2k auto attacks from Bahamut are nothing to scoff at.

I'll restate though, melding Dex after first week progression is completely pointless. 120 and 130 gear far out shines Dex melds, and it's far more beneficial go to full tank DPS. Especially when your healer gets a new weapon.

[Truedragon]

Well, it's various sources from being interested in the possibility myself, as a tank and as a crafter, mostly from reddit. http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...yo/parry_stat/ was the first I could find just glancing thru things, I'll admit I have a low need to satisfy people like you so I don't really feel like going thru all the research I looked into.

And yes DEX affects block rates as well, because I didn't mention that part I don't have my facts straight? lol Anyway, it had slipped my mind to mention it because it's as little an impact as the parry rate increase.

And parry and block rate boosts are bad because the content is such that you cannot rely on them. They do not reliably increase your eHP. And you sound like someone who doesn't even know what that is, go google it. "Do you people even know what you are talking about." Thanks, was a good laugh reading that.

Youre telling me I dont know what Im talking about but youre posting hearsay from over a year ago. That is as useless as the stuff I just washed down the toilet.

Seriously, I need facts. That means math. Not your opinion. If you put DEX on something, you do it for the block rate. Not for the parry rate. The parry rate has its own materia called parrying.