Astrologian Speculations! How will it fit in?

[Ranzan]

assuming 4 man, if the fairy is enough to heal, why not ?

Troll tower doesn't count once again. And trials (HM ones, I've yet to see a healer 100% in cleric in Ex) are such a fucking joke it doesn't matter if there is a guy solo healing

If it doesn't matter than why have 2 heal slots? Yes let's screw over one healer cause it really doesn't matter cause if anything goes wrong it's the healer fault as usual..

[Yuki_Tokita]

Congratulations! This thread has now been derailed into a "the healer should DPS instead of doing their job" thread. Nothing meaningful or productive will ever come from the op's topic ever again.

[Cynfael]

Congratulations! This thread has now been derailed into a "the healer should DPS instead of doing their job" thread. Nothing meaningful or productive will ever come from the op's topic ever again.

The correct way to state the argument is "the healer should DPS when appropriate since it is part of their job."

Besides, this entire thread is wild-ass guessing and wishful thinking outside of a handful of SE-provided talking points. Not much to derail. *shrug*

[Yuki_Tokita]

this entire thread is wild-ass guessing and wishful thinking outside of a handful of SE-provided talking points. Not much to derail. *shrug*

This is a post about what the Astrologian will be like when its released in 3.0. So if people are arguing about rather a healer should DPS is or not, then yes the thread is derailed.

[Cynfael]

This is a post about what the Astrologian will be like when its released in 3.0. So if people are arguing about rather a healer should DPS is or not, then yes the thread is derailed.

Of course it's derailed. This is partly because people are out of things to discuss until more info is released, so at least the derailment keeps the thread alive :P

[Aurelinaus]

If it doesn't matter than why have 2 heal slots? Yes let's screw over one healer cause it really doesn't matter cause if anything goes wrong it's the healer fault as usual..

Because having the option there is better than not at all. A lot of the EX primals are single tanked/healed 6 dps. Ifrit, Levi are the two I've yet to see solo tanked and don't think are possible (titan-egi OT doesn't count) but await being proven wrong for those two.

well back on topic

Surprised that no one caught on sooner, considering these are huge obvious red flags but to the point. we're getting skill speed/spell speed changes. To paraphrase what beans were spilled by the devs "Haste was to OP in XI, we want to avoid that in the future". To read between the lines: We are getting the spell haste in some form. Of the 3 jobs, which can bring it to the table? The skill speed/spell speed changes coinciding with it's release pretty much confirms AST will have party SkS/SpS buffing abilities, without the change AST would be completely undesirable with most party compositions (see:SMN, BRD) with how spell speed and skill speed currently work therefore necessitates changes to how those stats function.

I'm predicting that Selene will now be referred to as a pocket AST, hopefully that will translate more usage out of Eos when an AST is present, or SpS stacking WHMs won't be getting weird looks anymore.

*disclaimer: is still speculation, so plz keep stacks of volcanic rock salt handily in arms reach*

[Julebrus]

Think I read somewhere about the AST job and how it would play, at least a little bit.

AST has two "stances", one that works similar to WHM and one that works similar to SCH. However changing the stance isn't that viable to do that often during fight. (I have no idea if that's just a long CD or some other effects)

Other than that, they can draw cards in different ways... Say drawing one card and using it will cause a standard heal, you can also continue to draw a 2nd card for a different effect and so on.

Once again, I just think I read this somewhere.. Probably the japanese interview with Yoshi-P but yeah! That's all I have to say xD

[Ghishlain]

"the healer should DPS instead of doing their job"

To me, DPSing is one aspect of the job that helps complete the primary role of the job.

For example.

PLD pulls a mighty amounts of trash.

PLD is currently taking 760 DPS from the pack
WHM uses Holy to help burn pack, netting two things
-7 seconds of stun (thus netting the equivalent of 5,320 HP)
-Pack dies 25 seconds faster (thus netting the equivalent of 19,000 HP)

So, with the WHM DPSing (I'd say about 6 Holy's), we've now done the equivalent of 24,320 HP for 3,192MP (7.62HP/MP)

Now, if you had to cure through those 32 seconds, you would need to cure about 24,320 damage. You get close to 13 GCDs in that amount of time.

Assume the following:
-Cure I's are about 1,100 HP/cast
-Cure II's are about 2,000 HP/cast
-You get a Freecure proc every 6 Cure I's

5 Cure I's and 8 Cure II's = 2*1,100 + 11*2,000 = 24,200 HP healed.
2 Cure I's = 266 MP
11 Cure II's = 2,926 MP
Total 3,192 MP spent (7.58HP/MP)

So, not only do you do an equivalent amount amount of HP/MP spent, you're now cutting the kill time of the pack by 25 seconds. Woo.

SO! How does this fit in with AST?

Well, if I continue with my train of thought that AST is going to be designed to deal minimal damage (a very large assumption at this time), in order for AST to stay relevant, they have to provide a buff to their party equivalent to what a WHM or SCH may contribute to their party via DPS. I would imagine these buffs to be party based in nature, because any single target buff matching the 5-10% the average healer can contribute to an 8-man boss fight would make any singular DPS buff pretty over powered in 4-player content.

Alternatively, they could give AST many different single target buffs that are fast to cast but since you'll be buffing an entire 8-man group, that'll keep them busy enough to not "DPS" while they are healing. Though this has the potential to make them inherently weaker in 4-man content because they can't "contribute" as much (though could be offsetted by the fact they have a couple of DPS abilities they can weave in when they aren't buffing a full 8-man party)

I am interested in how they'll be doing buffs. Depending on how they work, it'll change the nature of the job play style. I don't expect the healing nature to move to far from what we already see from the WHMs and SCH toolkit.

[Aurelinaus]

Your example seems flawed it purely relys on the tank, if you holys are going to shave off an entire 25 seconds of TTK, the pack will be dealing a whole lot more than 760dps, so for the sake of simplicity lets say that is after mitigation by the tank and falloff. To net you 6 holys you need 18s(15s w/ PoM), that translates to 13680 (11400) minus the 5320 from stun mitigation that's 8360 (6080) damage to the tank in that timeframe.

[KisaiTenshi]

Why are we having this argument again?

This trend of people who find that they have no "time" to DPS even as SCH referencing CT content is really strange. Again, they must have either the worst parties ever on a regular basis or are watching the HP bars of the entire raid, which usually means massive overhealing and wasted time.

Or... the people who think Healers are lazy are way too comfortable in their FC that they never play with PUG's. I can assure you that the amount of time that there is time DPS is rare, and only if you get a good party where the Tank stuns all the AOE's, and the DPS don't take damage. The reality is that the Tank is just as DPS-happy as bad healers, and takes massive amounts of damage that they probably could have avoided. There are people on the forum who actually say they do this on purpose (stand in the AOE's) because they believe healers are lazy.

If a player stands in an avoidable AOE, they are bad at that role, and should probably be called out on it if keeps happening.

Just because a Job can dps, doesn't mean it should. I'll dps when I have time on sch, sure. However, I rarely ever do because ...

As mentioned repeatedly. The people who think Healers are lazy, don't play with PUG's often enough. The 24-man Raids are the only places where they will regularly encounter bad players.

Again a CT situation........ because thats where the serious playing happens and where you really measure playerskill right? right??

Ugh, I'll go over this again but broken records...

A healer that refuses to DPS is not Lazy. There is no content in the game that requires the Healer to DPS in a party. When you start calling healers lazy for not DPS'ing, you are calling DPS and Tanks' who don't self-heal, lazy as well. You get more DPS out of the party by letting everyone do their job than trying to get everyone to DPS inefficiently.

These are bad healers:
- The healer that switches to cleric stance and never switches out of it*
- The healer that constantly casts healbombs (eg Medica II) and then Holy's**
- The healer that stands around doing nothing, jumping, dancing, or otherwise being obnoxious when there are healable targets.

By all accounts if a healer has enough time to be a clown, they should be doing something more productive.

* It's easier for the SCH to pull this off without being a detriment, but a WHM who does it, is playing inefficiently on purpose.
** I've yet to see anyone do this and not immediately attract all the aggro. Any healer that opens with Medica II without there being party-wide damage, is playing poorly on purpose.

From what I'm reading the AST's stances will alternate between something similar to WHM and something similar to SCH, and speculation suggests it will be "healer mode" where the cards will cast spells that work like Cure I/Cure II/Cure III, and "support healer mode" which would be like casting Protect/Shell/Stoneskin/Regen/Medica II and other Heal-over-Time, and perhaps other time-based support magic that hasn't been shown yet. We don't know enough yet, so let's speculate back on what would make the AST preferable to WHM/SCH