4 Star Master Books - Completely frustrating and unfun.

[scarebearz]

WNII is far less efficient than most other dura saving/restoring skills, when used for manual crafting.

If you take into account the ToT procs missed, it in effect costs you a ton of CP to use.

I would always try and push for a 2nd mend2 or failed that, just use mend1/manip.

[xPeAcEx]

WNII is far less efficient than most other dura saving/restoring skills, when used for manual crafting.

If you take into account the ToT procs missed, it in effect costs you a ton of CP to use.

I would always try and push for a 2nd mend2 or failed that, just use mend1/manip.

As i said, the only time i won't use MM II is if i didn't have enough early ToT proc's and if it becomes a choice between MM I and WN II, i chose WN II.

2x SH II + MM I = 2x 25 + 1x 92 = 142 CP Spent, covers you for 6 steps and gives you open ended utility towards ToT procs.

2x SH II + WN II = 148 CP Spent and covers you for 8 steps since you changed your dura to x5 gaining an extra step.

Already more cost effective than MM I since you only use 40 dura compared to 60, also allows for use of a max of 2 ToT procs to break even on quality steps.

[Rath]

As i said, the only time i won't use MM II is if i didn't have enough early ToT proc's and if it becomes a choice between MM I and WN II, i chose WN II.

2x SH II + MM I = 2x 25 + 1x 92 = 142 CP Spent, covers you for 6 steps and gives you open ended utility towards ToT procs.

2x SH II + WN II = 148 CP Spent and covers you for 8 steps since you changed your dura to x5 gaining an extra step.

Already more cost effective than MM I since you only use 40 dura compared to 60, also allows for use of a max of 2 ToT procs to break even on quality steps.

Why 2x SH2 for mm1?
Serious question, not being sarcastic or anything.

[xPeAcEx]

Because I am calculating out a minimum of the cp consumed to perform at least 6 quality steps.

now on the other hand comparing to MM II you have 2x SH II + MM II = 210 cp consumed for 8 quality steps, 3 stacks of SH II left at a total cost of 20 durability.

MM II > WN II > MANIPULATION > MM I > WM I

As an example, this is the rotation i was using for 40 dura items from NQ mats before i could do it RNG free. (BiS CP Melds with a stone soup from npc vendor - 372)
CZ > IQ > SH II > WN II > 4x HT > SH II > 3x HT > MM I > HT > SH > ING II > INN > HT > GS > BB > CS II

Allows for 9 Hasty Touches and a BB under all buffs and it was only made possible by using WN II, point being. If i have the cp for a MM II then i will go for it but if i don't, then i hope i have the cp for a WN II

WN II Rotation with 8 quality steps leaves me at 35/80 dura, 4 steps left.
MM I Rotation with 6 quality steps leaves me at 50/80 dura, 5 steps left.
MM I Rotation with 8 quality steps leaves me at 30/80 dura, 3 steps left.

[Rath]

Because I am calculating out a minimum of the cp consumed to perform at least 6 quality steps.
now on the other hand comparing to MM II you have 2x SH II + MM II = 210 cp consumed for 8 quality steps, 3 stacks of SH II left at a total cost of 20 durability.

MM II > WN II > MANIPULATION > MM I > WM I

As an example, this is the rotation i was using for 40 dura items from NQ mats before i could do it RNG free. (BiS CP Melds with a stone soup from npc vendor - 372)
CZ > IQ > SH II > WN II > 4x HT > SH II > 3x HT > MM I > HT > SH > ING II > INN > HT > GS > BB > CS II

Allows for 9 Hasty Touches and a BB under all buffs and it was only made possible by using WN II, point being. If i have the cp for a MM II then i will go for it but if i don't, then i hope i have the cp for a WN II

WN II Rotation with 8 quality steps leaves me at 35/80 dura, 4 steps left.
MM I Rotation with 6 quality steps leaves me at 50/80 dura, 5 steps left.
MM I Rotation with 8 quality steps leaves me at 30/80 dura, 3 steps left.

When I do a MMI, I am usually at around 150 CP 30 dura and 7~ stacks of IQ and 3-4 CZ (this just happened while I was reading this post). My method (3-4 star) at this point is to use MMI+SH2+HTx3+GS (BB if good/ex) if enough CP due to a ToT before GS, then SH, if not CS2 BB then CS2. This rarely happens and is usually only if 1-2 ToT procs happened before I would normally MM2, if more then I just MM2 as it's all good. I will look at it later and see if that WNII would actually work with my methods and give me any benefit at that point. Although, I am not sure what skill I would remove to add it.

[xPeAcEx]

When I do a MMI, I am usually at around 150 CP 30 dura and 7~ stacks of IQ and 3-4 CZ (this just happened while I was reading this post). My method (3-4 star) at this point is to use MMI+SH2+HTx3+GS (BB if good/ex) if enough CP due to a ToT before GS, then SH, if not CS2 BB then CS2. This rarely happens and is usually only if 1-2 ToT procs happened before I would normally MM2, if more then I just MM2 as it's all good. I will look at it later and see if that WNII would actually work with my methods and give me any benefit at that point. Although, I am not sure what skill I would remove to add it.

Edit: To be more precise.

A rotation with a MMII + MMI requires a single ToT proc to complete and allows for a MAX of 11 HT.
A rotation with a MMII + WNII requires a single ToT proc to complete and allows for a MAX of 12 HT.
A rotation with 2x MMII requires a minimum of 5 ToT proc to complete, 4 if you run BB at 90% and allows for a MAX of 14 HT.

Edit 2:

The nice thing about a 2x MMII rotation is that if you get lucky and have even more ToT proc's you can transition into a WN I rotation to get a MAX of 16 HT but requires a total of 9 ToT proc to complete, 8 if you run BB at 90% or 7 if you run 2 of the HTs at 50%

[Sibyll]

snip

I find that WNII is useful if you aren't getting enough TotT procs to do a MMII x2 and still have CP for the Great Strides/BB phase. I have tried MMII and honestly if you are getting enough TotT you can run your synth on for a while, which is very nice obviously.

I'm not sure if this is even a good approach, but I've been having better success with getting IQ to about 8 stacks and then using the extra CP to wait out an Excellent + Great Strides proc. With enough CP I can have Comfort Zone up during this and usually get about 10 steps in by cycling GS+Observe/Innovation+TotT procs. I don't keep SH up to save CP. GS+Excellent+IQ 8 or more is >95% if not more. I know 11 stacks or Reclaim is kind of the accepted approach (at least from reading posts) a Good is about 75% or so. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've just found that most of my HQs have been on Excellents from runs where I had IQ at less than 10 due to unfortunate luck with Hasty Touch.

[scarebearz]

I'm not sure if this is even a good approach, but I've been having better success with getting IQ to about 8 stacks and then using the extra CP to wait out an Excellent + Great Strides proc. With enough CP I can have Comfort Zone up during this and usually get about 10 steps in by cycling GS+Observe/Innovation+TotT procs. I don't keep SH up to save CP. GS+Excellent+IQ 8 or more is >95% if not more. I know 11 stacks or Reclaim is kind of the accepted approach (at least from reading posts) a Good is about 75% or so. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've just found that most of my HQs have been on Excellents from runs where I had IQ at less than 10 due to unfortunate luck with Hasty Touch.

Sounds like your doing something wrong if your on 8 stacks and fishing for "Excellent" to be honest O.o

[Rocond]

I don't think it's about doing something wrong. It's about might as well fish on this synth where I got bad rng. I've gotten 100% a couple of times with 8 stacks where i just ended up getting bad rng and fighting my way to 8 stacks, hit reclaim and fish for excellent because I have nothing to lose at that point.

[scarebearz]

I don't think it's about doing something wrong. It's about might as well fish on this synth where I got bad rng. I've gotten 100% a couple of times with 8 stacks where i just ended up getting bad rng and fighting my way to 8 stacks, hit reclaim and fish for excellent because I have nothing to lose at that point.

That does not seem to be the same as what the above poster is doing.