Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

[Hiruke]

I guess being helpful isn't for everyone. But I'd suggest these people to create their own static and keep their badass skills for themselves. They could even sell runs to the noobs they kick.

Furthermore, my dad works at Nintendo and he said Louisoix is going to be Smash 4 DLC next year. It's true because I said it was.

I don't know what the point of you two trolling this guy is, really. Especially since, you know, he's right. His correctitude > snarky comments. If people want to vote dismiss you for a difference in play styles, it is considered a righteous action by SE. So, deal with it.

And the reality on the ground is this:

1) People know going into DF that it's probably going to be awful.
2) Once content is old enough, basically everyone in DF is expecting everyone else to know it. If it looks like this isn't the case and a near-instant win is not possible, you can rightly expect the underperformers to be kicked, or for the entire group to disintegrate. Either way, the persons who have no idea how to do the fight will have learned essentially nothing. You can be sad about this all you want, but the likely paths are:

a) Person without experience will need to watch a video, read a guide, and/or
b) form a PF with other people who are way behind.

Ain't nobody got time to wipe 6 month to year old+ content. Nobody.

[Ashkendor]

I've seen players in T5 DF saying they won't watch a video or a guide because it's only a game and not a job. It's annoying but let's face it, they pay a sub like me, so they are allowed to DF whatever they want.

Sure, they're entitled to play how they want to. By the same token, I am also entitled to play how I want to. So are the other six players in the party. At that time, it turns into a 'majority rules' situation. Is the majority of the party there to learn and not necessarily to clear? Fair enough, I'll either help them learn, eat the half hour penalty, or get myself kicked. If the majority if the party is there to clear, they have every right to kick the player or players that are keeping them from doing so. It's a simple matter of differing play styles.

I rather have a party of newbies who keep trying than one made with "pros" who can't stand a single wipe because of an unexperienced player.

You're exaggerating. Nobody's saying anything about not being able to stand a single wipe. Even "pros" can make mistakes that cause wipes. But if a player is going in completely raw and hasn't even seen or read a guide, it takes that much longer to get through stages of the fight that many of us basically snooze through. Unless I jump into a clear/learning party, when I go into a PF party I intend to farm it. That doesn't mean 'struggle through it six times before finally clearing it and then repeat'. That means get in there, get it done quickly, and do it again. Obviously I can't hope to farm through DF, but my feelings there are pretty similar. I don't go into DF parties intending to spend upwards of an hour teaching the mechanics to someone that can't even be bothered to watch a 5-10 minute video to at least pick up the basics before plunging in with seven other random people.

I understand wanting to experience new content. Really, I do. I love the feeling of going in blind with three or seven other players that are also going in blind. The problem is, the duties that available in solo queue through Duty Finder more than likely aren't new content to 6/8 or 7/8. It's stuff we've all done multiple times before and asking us to go through those "learning stages" again just so one person can get the "full experience" is pretty selfish. Suck it up, catch up to the new content, and have fun jumping in blind when the fight itself is new.

[Aurora-Pendragon]

You're exaggerating.

I DF T5 and Mog Ex everyday actualy. I've been in groups that disband after 2 wipes only. So no I'm not exaggerating.
Players going totaly blind are rare, but most of players who still DF T5 or Mog EX are players who need to clear them to get access to more content and they won't vote abandon after 2 wipes. You can't actualy DF T5 thinking you're going to farm it. I'm still waiting to see a DF group passing trough twisters phase.

Edit: I'm just talking about DF. Newbies joining a PF group asking for experienced players/farm deserve a kick.

[Krr]

If people want to vote dismiss you for a difference in play styles, it is considered a righteous action by SE. So, deal with it..

The definition of 'difference in playstyle' by GM nomenclature and player use of the phrase is very different, and regularly misused by votekick-abuse apologists on the forums. There have been multiple red posts on the matter.

It also isn't a 'righteous action'. It is simply an action you are allowed to take. Whether something is allowed in the TOS has no moral bearing on the action itself; merely whether it is allowed or not.

[Barboron]

I guess being helpful isn't for everyone. But I'd suggest these people to create their own static and keep their badass skills for themselves. They could even sell runs to the noobs they kick.

Why help those who won't help themselves or others? So only experienced players should help new players but new players should help experienced players by going in with some knowledge prior to the fight?

Furthermore, my dad works at Nintendo and he said Louisoix is going to be Smash 4 DLC next year. It's true because I said it was.

Hmmm...this is the internet so you must be telling the truth. People wouldn't lie on the internet, would they?

The definition of 'difference in playstyle' by GM nomenclature and player use of the phrase is very different, and regularly misused by votekick-abuse apologists on the forums. There have been multiple red posts on the matter.

It also isn't a 'righteous action'. It is simply an action you are allowed to take. Whether something is allowed in the TOS has no moral bearing on the action itself; merely whether it is allowed or not.

Don't like it? Become a GM and change it yourself.

[Hazama999]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've decided to just set up a learning party and Idk, maybe craft or level up ninja while I wait.

I really don't want to watch/read a guide. I feel it would be disrespectful to myself, and if I can't respect myself, how could I respect others? Going in blind is considered extremely disrespectful according to that one poster, so I'll avoid that for now. It may take a while to get a party together but eh, that's how it is when you're not on top of your game like most people who do Coil.

[CYoung187]

I DF T5 and Mog Ex everyday actualy. I've been in groups that disband after 2 wipes only. So no I'm not exaggerating.
Players going totaly blind are rare, but most of players who still DF T5 or Mog EX are players who need to clear them to get access to more content and /snip

Edit: I'm just talking about DF. Newbies joining a PF group asking for experienced players/farm deserve a kick.

It is pretty dang easy to see that a group is going nowhere after 2 bad wipes. Abandoning is just being realistic. There is a huge difference in a wipe because of a few mistakes and wiping right away because a certain player knows nothing about the fight and will not be anywhere near competent even with some work. Was in a t7 run last night where both tanks were brand new and never read a single thing about the fight. Watching them fail every mechanic is not what the other 6 are there for. There is only so much coaching you can do. "Oh, what's voice?"

Going in 100% blind in anything past t4 is completely wasting everyone else's time. Don't expect to get anywhere, who knows how many groups of random players' time is completely wasted for a completely raw player to actually see and learn every mechanic. This isn't a read and react type of game. Most mechanics are not self explanatory.

[Ashkendor]

Why help those who won't help themselves or others? So only experienced players should help new players but new players should help experienced players by going in with some knowledge prior to the fight?

Yup, exactly this. I enjoy helping those that help themselves. Those that don't, though... yeah, no.

I DF T5 and Mog Ex everyday actualy. I've been in groups that disband after 2 wipes only. So no I'm not exaggerating.
Players going totaly blind are rare, but most of players who still DF T5 or Mog EX are players who need to clear them to get access to more content and they won't vote abandon after 2 wipes. You can't actualy DF T5 thinking you're going to farm it. I'm still waiting to see a DF group passing trough twisters phase.

Edit: I'm just talking about DF. Newbies joining a PF group asking for experienced players/farm deserve a kick.

I can't imagine DF'ing T5 or Mog EX. There's a limit to how much I can put up with. People derping up and killing moogles early, people killing half the party with divebombs... just... no. It'd be right up there with T7 DF. >.<

I honestly don't DF a lot of stuff simply because I'd rather PF and actually clear things. A few friends tell me that I have a terribly biased notion about DF parties all being bad, but honestly the vast majority of them that I've been in have been awful. I think I've cleared T6 all of twice in the DF and failed it probably a dozen times. Why do that when I can just PF it and get players that are either 1) on farm mode or 2) at least all on the same page as far as wanting to learn. I've gone into DF and seen AFK'ers, people that purposely hinder the group's progress because they think it's funny/cute, and people that are too lazy to learn mechanics and flat out ask for carries. Most days I'd sooner not run than run eight man content in the Duty Finder.

[LineageRazor]

2) Once content is old enough, basically everyone in DF is expecting everyone else to know it.

Actually, just the opposite: The older content gets and the more obsolete the drops, the greater the chance of finding newbies who are rolling the content for progression, rather than loot. For relatively easy stuff like Hard Mode Primals, that's not a problem; I've seen parties pass Titan HM with four or five people off the edge by the end of the fight.

Stuff like early EX Primals and old coils, though? These are HIGHLY likely to include newbies, and it's not in the least unusual to enter a run with four or more people without a win. Vets that join these runs are either tolerant, helpful types looking to help out folks that need it (and maybe pick up a pony or glamour drop if things go well), or gamblers hoping to luck into a run where most of the other players are also veterans (these are the first people to bail once they realize that the win isn't gonna be quick and easy).

Anyone that queues up in Duty Finder for Titan Ex expecting an easy win just because the content is old is fooling themselves. It's EXACTLY because the content is old that the win is likely to be hard.

[Hyrist]

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I've decided to just set up a learning party and Idk, maybe craft or level up ninja while I wait.

I really don't want to watch/read a guide. I feel it would be disrespectful to myself, and if I can't respect myself, how could I respect others? Going in blind is considered extremely disrespectful according to that one poster, so I'll avoid that for now. It may take a while to get a party together but eh, that's how it is when you're not on top of your game like most people who do Coil.

It's good to be researched going into any fight. Sadly, you're going to spoil yourself on story, especially with Coil, going into there, but it will save yourself, and others, a lot of frustration.


Keep in mind, most of these fights are heavily scripted, meaning a monster is going to do something, and if you don't react in a specific way at that specific time, the unforgiving punishment mechanics will make that mistake fatal to the raid. This is why you're seeing people feel that going in to explore it blind is so disrespectful - it costs them a lot of time for someone who knows nothing, to get adjusted.

That said, I find it personally frustrating how some of the more outspoken here are blatantly intolerant of the difficulties newer or simply less informed players are, thinking of little more than themselves in the situation. Though, that's mainly their text painting the picture darker than it is. They likely simply just want to discourage the continual frustration that is failure due to being unprepared and unpracticed. It's hard to keep having to start over for new players when you are trying to advance.

I'm going to do something I haven't seen this thread do for you yet, and link you to a you tube channel where you can go and research these fights.

I prefer MTQCapture. She's funny, she's concise, and she does a good job of explaining mechanics in simple terms so you may be informed as to why you are acting a certain way. However, there are other YouTube guides that may suit your tastes better. This is simply the one our group uses.

As you can see, there are people of all kinds in the game, and of various different expectations, so don't be afraid to look for people who fit your playstyle and play times. Finding a Free Company or Linkshell of people who share your views is the fast track of getting things done in a manner most fulfilling to you.

It may benefit you more to use Party Finder to find a Free Company to join. I can't speak for Hyperion, they're not even on my data server, I don't think. But I can take it on good faith that there are plenty of groups like mine that don't mind taking newer players through older content and helping them learn the ropes. Seeking out those players may be a far better objective than simply looking for one learning party after another.