Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

[Barboron]

It's annoying but let's face it, they pay a sub like me, so they are allowed to DF whatever they want.

And others also paying are entitled to kick those players and continue on ahead without them.

[Krr]

And others also paying are entitled to kick those players and continue on ahead without them.

Ah yes, the legendary "difference in playstyle" option on the Vote Kick menu. I hear if you press up up down down left right left right A B Enter (or SELECT if you're a pad player) it will appear, and if you select it, a GM will teleport into the instance wielding a miscontextualized screenshot to endorse being a jerkbag with vote dismiss.

[Barboron]

Ah yes, the legendary "difference in playstyle" option on the Vote Kick menu. I hear if you press up up down down left right left right A B Enter (or SELECT if you're a pad player) it will appear, and if you select it, a GM will teleport into the instance wielding a miscontextualized screenshot to endorse being a jerkbag with vote dismiss.

Unfortunately, no. The GMs won't take action against it because it's a legitimate reason to dismiss someone, as I have been told by the GMs.

[Krr]

Unfortunately, no. The GMs won't take action against it because it's a legitimate reason to dismiss someone, as I have been told by the GMs.

Furthermore, my dad works at Nintendo and he said Louisoix is going to be Smash 4 DLC next year. It's true because I said it was.

[Hiruke]

I guess being helpful isn't for everyone. But I'd suggest these people to create their own static and keep their badass skills for themselves. They could even sell runs to the noobs they kick.

Furthermore, my dad works at Nintendo and he said Louisoix is going to be Smash 4 DLC next year. It's true because I said it was.

I don't know what the point of you two trolling this guy is, really. Especially since, you know, he's right. His correctitude > snarky comments. If people want to vote dismiss you for a difference in play styles, it is considered a righteous action by SE. So, deal with it.

And the reality on the ground is this:

1) People know going into DF that it's probably going to be awful.
2) Once content is old enough, basically everyone in DF is expecting everyone else to know it. If it looks like this isn't the case and a near-instant win is not possible, you can rightly expect the underperformers to be kicked, or for the entire group to disintegrate. Either way, the persons who have no idea how to do the fight will have learned essentially nothing. You can be sad about this all you want, but the likely paths are:

a) Person without experience will need to watch a video, read a guide, and/or
b) form a PF with other people who are way behind.

Ain't nobody got time to wipe 6 month to year old+ content. Nobody.

[Krr]

If people want to vote dismiss you for a difference in play styles, it is considered a righteous action by SE. So, deal with it..

The definition of 'difference in playstyle' by GM nomenclature and player use of the phrase is very different, and regularly misused by votekick-abuse apologists on the forums. There have been multiple red posts on the matter.

It also isn't a 'righteous action'. It is simply an action you are allowed to take. Whether something is allowed in the TOS has no moral bearing on the action itself; merely whether it is allowed or not.

[LineageRazor]

2) Once content is old enough, basically everyone in DF is expecting everyone else to know it.

Actually, just the opposite: The older content gets and the more obsolete the drops, the greater the chance of finding newbies who are rolling the content for progression, rather than loot. For relatively easy stuff like Hard Mode Primals, that's not a problem; I've seen parties pass Titan HM with four or five people off the edge by the end of the fight.

Stuff like early EX Primals and old coils, though? These are HIGHLY likely to include newbies, and it's not in the least unusual to enter a run with four or more people without a win. Vets that join these runs are either tolerant, helpful types looking to help out folks that need it (and maybe pick up a pony or glamour drop if things go well), or gamblers hoping to luck into a run where most of the other players are also veterans (these are the first people to bail once they realize that the win isn't gonna be quick and easy).

Anyone that queues up in Duty Finder for Titan Ex expecting an easy win just because the content is old is fooling themselves. It's EXACTLY because the content is old that the win is likely to be hard.

[Barboron]

I guess being helpful isn't for everyone. But I'd suggest these people to create their own static and keep their badass skills for themselves. They could even sell runs to the noobs they kick.

Why help those who won't help themselves or others? So only experienced players should help new players but new players should help experienced players by going in with some knowledge prior to the fight?

Furthermore, my dad works at Nintendo and he said Louisoix is going to be Smash 4 DLC next year. It's true because I said it was.

Hmmm...this is the internet so you must be telling the truth. People wouldn't lie on the internet, would they?

The definition of 'difference in playstyle' by GM nomenclature and player use of the phrase is very different, and regularly misused by votekick-abuse apologists on the forums. There have been multiple red posts on the matter.

It also isn't a 'righteous action'. It is simply an action you are allowed to take. Whether something is allowed in the TOS has no moral bearing on the action itself; merely whether it is allowed or not.

Don't like it? Become a GM and change it yourself.

[Krr]

Don't like it? Become a GM and change it yourself.

I never said that the difference in playstyle ruling was bad. I said that the playerbase as a whole misunderstands where it's applicable and uses it as a poor excuse for everything. There are a lot of caveats as to what is or isn't an acceptable 'difference in playstyle' and every GM has a different opinion of what it means. Getting a large history of filed reports on your record for players accusing you of votekick abuse is also gonna make the GM team very annoyed at having to deal with you as an individual fast and color their perception of your case rapidly.

It's important to remember that there isn't a definitive rulebook on what is or isn't harassment or abuse in-game - the TOS is purposefully open-ended, vague, and gives GMs arbitrative power over each individual case. The process used is holistic, meaning it considers all circumstances of your account, chat logs, etc. The importance of context has been said multiple times by redposts - what's considered a 'difference in playstyle' by the GM team in one context is 'flagrant abuse' in another.

But rather than using our better moral judgement on what is or isn't being an ass, players are apparently clinging to sensationalist, decontextualized statements that have been re-framed multiple times by actual S-E staff.

(Though it is a bad ruling in that no one understands how the hell it actually works.)

Look, I'm not saying you can or can't votekick whoever you want. Nine out of ten times, a majority endorsement is all you need to justify another player's disruptiveness or unwillingness to cooperate or contribute. I'm just saying that there's a deep community misconception of what is or isn't acceptable because one time low-rank GM Dad came down from heaven and made a vague response to a vaguely described case. Regardless of TOS technicalities, you're going to need a boatload of reports before you're considered a problem by anyone, and even then it'll be a slap on the wrist.

There's a tremendous difference between "This guy spiritbonded crafter gear in my Snowcloak run" and "I ban anyone who hasn't memorized a MrHappy video in DF because it's apparently too much effort for me to freaking type things in a DF progress group that's more likely to find ten pieces of Alexandrite in a row than get a single clear anyway."

[Barboron]

I never said that the difference in playstyle ruling was bad. I said that the playerbase as a whole misunderstands where it's applicable and uses it as a poor excuse for everything.

I'm not even going to read the rest simply because it's down to the GMs to decide when it is or is not applicable. If it is not applicable, they don't take action against the account.

Again, try become a GM if you want to change things.