Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

[Kazumac]

For best results create your own learning party and work with friends/fc/ls. Barring that you can go into a duty finder but it's like rolling the dice on whether or not you get a group that will be helpful to a new player or as you get more experience, a group experienced enough that you can continue learning (ie when you are working on phase 3, a group that is still struggling with phase 1).

DF is a no expectations area, consider it like a suggested party. There's not obligation of anyone when you get there and the party may fall apart immediately or remove you. And likewise you can leave if you don't like it.

The social interactions and expectations of the Japanese player base cannot be applied to NA servers. Those come with their own issues and have just switched the PF and DF around as many have stated. It would be great to see more learning pts in PF so I'd suggest making them. They tend to fill up pretty fast in my experience.

[Yumi_umi]

Imo its kinda messed up how se and the community made the content progression go all new player unfriendly.
Like its already rough trying to get back into 2nd coil and clearing it without having a dozen of clears.
Can u imagine how bad it'd be for first coilers?
The rule now is if you didn't clear it when the content was hot then ur gonna have a bad time unless u have connections to groups.

[Ashkendor]

Imo its kinda messed up how se and the community made the content progression go all new player unfriendly.
Like its already rough trying to get back into 2nd coil and clearing it without having a dozen of clears.
Can u imagine how bad it'd be for first coilers?
The rule now is if you didn't clear it when the content was hot then ur gonna have a bad time unless u have connections to groups.

Nah. Hell, me and some friends routinely put up PF's looking for people needing first coil clears.

Dat 100 soldiery bonus is hella nice.

First coil is basically an utter faceroll outside of T5; there you actually have to pay attention to mechanics.

[Yumi_umi]

Nah. Hell, me and some friends routinely put up PF's looking for people needing first coil clears.

Dat 100 soldiery bonus is hella nice.

First coil is basically an utter faceroll outside of T5; there you actually have to pay attention to mechanics.

On adamantoise, the pf is baren lol.
No such thing as coil 1 anymore.
Just shiva ex, fcob static recruiting/ clearing, crafting and the occasional random party for hunts.

[Barboron]

The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by helping new players learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

I guess you kind of cherry picked some of what I said. As I actually said :

It's not that someone is new to the fight but rather hasn't put the effort in.

I don't care if I see the 100 Soldiery bonus when starting a duty, I trust a new player who knows the fight as much as most "experienced" players.

However, if the DF is there for learning purposes, how can new players be expected to clear content? If a new player is unable to find a group, which they obviously are since they use the DF, how can they clear the likes of T5, only an example, in the DF if it is for learning players only? A player who has learned the first and second, maybe even third, phases may continually end up getting players learning the first phase. See what's happening here? A player who is there to learn is preventing another player from learning.

Teaching people or learning is all well and good but teaching people who don't even make a small look ahead, gets difficult considering the time restraint and the other players in the duty. It's not all about the new player. Unfortunately, majority rules, and the people learning tend to be of the few.

The reason you don't see learning parties often in the PF, although I do still see them, is because they aren't willing to find people. So, instead, stick 7 other random players with the task via the DF to teach them.

If you are new to a fight and get away without having looked at it, fair play to you. I won't condemn anyone. I would just rather, that when I enter the DF, that people put in that bit of effort so should I try and teach them, it makes it easier for me. So when I name a mechanic, they aren't confused. I will assist people who put in that effort, but not people who don't.

[Lemuria]

However, if the DF is there for learning purposes, how can new players be expected to clear content? If a new player is unable to find a group, which they obviously are since they use the DF, how can they clear the likes of T5, only an example, in the DF if it is for learning players only? A player who has learned the first and second, maybe even third, phases may continually end up getting players learning the first phase. See what's happening here? A player who is there to learn is preventing another player from learning.

If you have to use circular logic in an argument, you've already lost.

This really isn't rocket science here. You can watch every video under the sun, but the only way to learn is to experience. The easiest way to do this is the Duty Finder. It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, it's the cold, hard truth. I click a check box, hit a button. Done. I'm in the queue for the next fight. No running around trying to find like-minded players who want to learn or are willing to help others learn (hint, those are REALLY hard to find these days).

So, you're going to be teamed up with inexperienced players. You're going to have to expect not everyone fully understands the fight. Even if they've watched a Youtube video you're going to find players who missed key mechanics doing so. And lastly, you're going to find it more difficult. The chances of you actually being matched with a team thats fully competent are far slimmer than the chances of being mixed with new players.

So, you can either be toxic and deny these people the chance to learn by vote kicking even though you KNEW in advance what to expect, or you can work WITH these players so the next time they show up in the Duty Finder they're a little bit wiser and a lot more beneficial to the team. With posts like these ones in this forum, it's no wonder new players consider our community to be less than welcoming.

[Barboron]

You can watch every video under the sun, but the only way to learn is to experience.

Do I have to reiterate my point here? Or do people have difficult reading? If someone watches a video, reads a guide, or does something in an attempt to prepare themselves by knowing the fight, by all means if I end up with them in the DF I have no issue assisting them.

The easiest way to do this is the Duty Finder. It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, it's the cold, hard truth. I click a check box, hit a button. Done. I'm in the queue for the next fight. No running around trying to find like-minded players who want to learn or are willing to help others learn (hint, those are REALLY hard to find these days).

Easiest, but laziest way. That's why people haven't cleared content. See it time and time again on the forums that people "can't find parties" because they are waiting for someone else to start one.

[RaspberryRipple]

T6 is easy to tank. Tank him in the center. Tank swap when he spits. Run through the boss every other thorn whip. Last phase tank him on the edge. That is it.

[Gardes]

This is why my Free Company makes it a concerted effort to assist all our members so they are not forced to resort to Duty Finder.

I swear, it shouldn't be so exasperating to tell people to be patient when dealing with randoms.

I don't know why you're preaching this hard about patience when you and your fc is already dodging the DF from the get go, either.

That's not for you or I to determine. That's for the GM to determine, and again, abuse of the system, which is can simply be ascertained by having enough reports against the individual for votkick abuse, is enough grounds for the GM or SGM to make the call.

And I don't play the skepticism game. I deal with facts and experience. Turn around on GM calls can be anywhere between that night to months later depending on the amount of investigation needed. When you are building a case of mechanic abuse behavior, especially as one on an area as contestable as votekick, it can take a while.

So basically there's no complete proof about what's going to happen to a player on any offense and what you claim as fact has been hear say from other players, despite there are hear say from other players that are the exact opposite. I still don't see how this makes it official that players going into a df MUST have the same mindset as the newcomers instead of expecting randomness from ALL sides (including a newplayer getting 7 other people who went in there to win) and expecting random outcomes of getting a win, abandon or getting kicked, especially when there's an actual gm reply posted in the forums stating that player removal over play style disagreement isnt something that gms are goind to do something about. Plus, the whole game community at large isn't even united on this front because someone just said that another data center treats the df differently.

[LalaRu]

... participants are expected to have knowledge of the fight ahead of time ...

There are mainly three groups of players in the raiding field:

The first group, is people who wants learn to learn a fight, trying to comprend mechanics on their own, and have the reward and joy to make the kill with all his own effort, and maybe share the findings with the community.

The second group, is people that is not smart enough (or not willing) to understand mechanics themselves, so they first wait someone else wrote on the internet how the fight is (see above), and then copy and paste the fight to make the kill, making ten thousands less effort than the first group of people.

Third group is all the rest. Including who does not care anything and join with the hope being carried, or just playing to kill 15 min of his time before go lunch, etc.

What group you belongs to?

Edit:
Don't take me wrong. There is nothing bad on belonging on a group or another. Problems you (we) get in duty are most likely to happen when people from different groups are mixed together. That also explain why PF is the best method, as long as you end up with people (hopefully) belonging same group.