Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

[Hazama999]

Hello,

I'd taken a long break from then game and only recently made it through T5 with the help of my FC. I don't really like to watch or read guides on something unless I'm really stuck on it. It was rather foolish of me to go into T6 through DF without having any previous knowledge of it. At least that was the feeling I got when I got kicked after the second wipe (with me tanking Rafflesia).

I'm kind of conflicted here. Do you think it's still possible to get a learning party going through PF even though the content has been "nerfed to hell" and considered somewhat outdated? Or, should I just throw myself against it through DF and learn it the hard way? I'm a bit reluctant to do the latter as I know for sure that I'd probably be the cause of at least one wipe, and I don't really wanna drag people down just because I'm still in the learning process.

I'm also geared just enough to do T9 and I've seen a few T9 learning parties on the PF, but I'd like to do each turn in order so I dunno about that <_<

That is one of the things I wish SE had kept when implementing Coil into DF. That is, doing a turn before the next one is unlocked in DF as opposed to having the whole of second Coil unlocked from the get-go.

But I digress. I appreciate any advice you could offer me

[Barboron]

You're too far behind to be honest. That fight is pretty easy that it's rare to see a learning party. Maybe T8 or T9 learning parties but not T6.

As for going into DF....I would honestly vote kick someone for doing that. It's not that someone is new to the fight but rather hasn't put the effort in. The Duty Finder is there for matching up with others, but you're highly likely to be matched up with at least a few players who know the fight and are there for the kill. Why should players have to cater to people who know little to nothing of the fight? (Honest question by the way)

It's not a personal attack on you, I just find it quite rude of players to do this.

I will reiterate, I don't care if people have cleared the content or not, but knowing what you are getting into is good. I will just as quickly take someone new who has looked up the fight compared to someone with kill "experience", as they wipe the parties just as easily.

[Hazama999]

Good question. You play your way and I respect that, but why should I hold random people in a random matchmaking system to my own standards?

I'm not actually expecting players to explain the fight to me. As far as effort is concerned, I'd like to think that I'm perceptive enough to put 2 and 2 together when it comes to learning raid mechanics. To this end, I've made good use of my PS4's recording feature x)

That's pretty much how I learned T5 back when there were still a few learning parties left for it. Is this not effort?

[silentwindfr]

Why should players have to cater to people who know little to nothing of the fight? (Honest question by the way)

It's not a personal attack on you, I just find it quite rude of players to do this.

exept DF are there for that, since PF party are barely used for this. if you do a DF of a content and hope that everyone know the whole fight.... you are quite naive. when you press the ready button for DF a content, you accept that you can get people that don't know the fight or do it for the first time... i find it extremely rude the people that expect everyone to be at the same point than them in DF... if you don't want to meet people that don't know the fight or do it for the first time...create a group in PF with the same goal.

DF = Pick Up Group.... it's a reality and PUG means you can get anything, the best like the worst *shrugs* just my 2 cents.

[Gardes]

exept DF are there for that, since PF party are barely used for this.

Who went and made that official? If anyone can make that assumption, others can make the opposite assumption based on the age of content. Fact is, the df party that the OP got wanted a tank that knows what he's doing and the vote was proof of that.

It works both ways for df.

[Hyrist]

Who went and made that official?

Rule of averages did. It does not matter how many parties you mistreat, eventually you kicking someone for poor player skill will wind up with one too many reports on your record and action will be taken. That's how it gets officiated. Duty Finder is lowest common denominator of grouping. It does not matter what you attempt to socially contract in a web-based community that represents a minority of the players. What happens most often in the Duty Finder itself dictates the rules, not anything anyone has to say here, regardless of our personal feelings on it.

This is why my Free Company makes it a concerted effort to assist all our members so they are not forced to resort to Duty Finder.

[silentwindfr]

DF = Random group, PF = are group aimed to a content with recquirement placed by the leader.
in the DF you have no control on the people that will come into the group (ilevel, class,...). in PF you can decide the ilevel and the class present and much more...

it's why it's stupid to hope for get what you want in DF and quite rude, like i have said is safer to organize a group in PF with people sharing the same goal instead to simply ask to everybody to have the same level of experience and decide to kick a person because he don't match your critera into DF. DF are not your personal belonging.... it's pure random... if you want something more.... like this.... just make a PF.

[Gardes]

Rule of averages did. It does not matter how many parties you mistreat, eventually you kicking someone for poor player skill will wind up with one too many reports on your record and action will be taken. That's how it gets officiated.

Is there any proof of that? I've gotten myself kicked for refusing to leave new players behind in praetorium and when I reported it, one of the first questions asked by the gm was whether the people kicking me out ever said anything in relation to the kick, which leads me to believe that unless there's any solid proof of harassment before kicking, they will not take any action. I havent seen many kicks but my exp says it's usually silent kicks when it comes to content experience matters.

it's why it's stupid to hope for get what you want in DF and quite rude, like i have said is safer to organize a group in PF with people sharing the same goal instead to simply ask to everybody to have the same level of experience and decide to kick a person because he don't match your critera into DF.

Again, how does this not work both ways? Why is someone new allowed to expect new player friendly party in a df but an experienced player not allowed to expect a win goal party in a df? If the latter isnt welcome in the df, how is the df considered random when only people who are new or friendly to new players are in it? It'll all be learning parties, period. If it's truly random, why should new players expect red carpets all the time? Shouldn't he use the PF all the same, if the exp players are expected to PF to get what he wants too?

[Vaultic_Fang]

The Duty Finder is there for matching up with others, but you're highly likely to be matched up with at least a few players who know the fight and are there for the kill. Why should players have to cater to people who know little to nothing of the fight? I just find it quite rude of players to do this.

The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by helping new players learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

[Hyrist]

Pre is a poor arguing point when it comes to contention. It's a roulette, and at the same time the ending of the 2.0 storyline. It's a hot ground for the 'rush' vs 'rights' argument and often the where the 'it goes both way' argument is solely valid at the exact same time it validates the 'expect the bottom of the barrel from duty finder' argument.

I've had players report getting 3 day bans after making habit of using the vote-kick system. It's not harassment that is required for action to be taken, it's abuse of the system. So one who makes a habit of enforcing the mentality tends to receive the backlash.

If you wish to put your account to the test for this, be my guest. SE has already declared multiple times that they take abuse of the Vote-kick system seriously, and I have seen the effects of it. Take it for what you will.

However, as far as the rule of averages goes. Casual players make the bulk of this game's population. You are far more likely to encounter one through the duty finder than any other kind of player. Expecting otherwise is inviting disaster. Again these things are patently obvious by continual first hand experience.

Again, we can argue these things to the next Calamity. You're going to encounter this. Regardless of our opinions. You don't go into DF with high, or even reasonable expectations. You do so at the peril of your constant disappointment. Go in there expecting to have to help people, and you'll have a far more enjoyable experience all around.