Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

[Hyrist]

Pre is a poor arguing point when it comes to contention. It's a roulette, and at the same time the ending of the 2.0 storyline. It's a hot ground for the 'rush' vs 'rights' argument and often the where the 'it goes both way' argument is solely valid at the exact same time it validates the 'expect the bottom of the barrel from duty finder' argument.

I've had players report getting 3 day bans after making habit of using the vote-kick system. It's not harassment that is required for action to be taken, it's abuse of the system. So one who makes a habit of enforcing the mentality tends to receive the backlash.

If you wish to put your account to the test for this, be my guest. SE has already declared multiple times that they take abuse of the Vote-kick system seriously, and I have seen the effects of it. Take it for what you will.

However, as far as the rule of averages goes. Casual players make the bulk of this game's population. You are far more likely to encounter one through the duty finder than any other kind of player. Expecting otherwise is inviting disaster. Again these things are patently obvious by continual first hand experience.

Again, we can argue these things to the next Calamity. You're going to encounter this. Regardless of our opinions. You don't go into DF with high, or even reasonable expectations. You do so at the peril of your constant disappointment. Go in there expecting to have to help people, and you'll have a far more enjoyable experience all around.

[Gardes]

However, as far as the rule of averages goes. Casual players make the bulk of this game's population. You are far more likely to encounter one through the duty finder than any other kind of player. Expecting otherwise is inviting disaster. Again these things are patently obvious by continual first hand experience.

Again, we can argue these things to the next Calamity. You're going to encounter this. Regardless of our opinions. You don't go into DF with high, or even reasonable expectations. You do so at the peril of your constant disappointment. Go in there expecting to have to help people, and you'll have a far more enjoyable experience all around.

See, I agree that casual players make the bulk of this game but how can you make the assumption that they're all the same and I can just expect the worst of them? They're varied players, some can be excellent players who just dont have time to raid the newest content, some can be players with low skills but have lots of time. I can't really expect them all to have the same personality either. I don't believe in "they're all casuals so i can just expect the worst of them" mindset.

Speaking of averages, me and my fc went to t6 to help someone gear up his pld last week. Six of us went there at least 12 times in a row to clear it and we only got 1 new player bonus and only we only wiped once (it wasnt the run with the new player). I'd say 24 or so players we met were generally decent at least at handling mechanics. Especially the pug slots are 1 dps and 1 healer and we eventually played around with both our tanks equipping str accessories and tanking without defiance or tanking in sword oath and most of the df healers handled it well. I've solo dfed turn 6 and 7 a few times myself and while there were some rough rides, it was generally not that painful, due to the nerfs.

Also, regarding the kicking abuse thing, I've seen first hand on how lenient SE is when it comes to suspending players that are harassing/kicking other players (not just referring to the praetor instance I mentioned) so I was indeed surprised to see people claim that such a thing is a deterrent from kicking other players. Hell, I've seen someone try to ruin a bone dragon fight in ct and succeeded at it until he got kicked and right immediately after his partner went to bug out the next fight, locking out 24 people from the fight permanently and everyone had to completely abandon the instance because of it. I reported him (and I'm sure people in the instance from another world did the same) and I never saw him get banned and he even bragged about having done it and not getting banned. So forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical about the gm being an actual deterrent from people using the kick system for play style disagreement (also seen another thread in this forum complaining about gm not doing anything about it), but I'll take your word for it.

[Ashkendor]

Rule of averages did. It does not matter how many parties you mistreat, eventually you kicking someone for poor player skill will wind up with one too many reports on your record and action will be taken.

Some people are there for the clear and the people with no idea what's going on make that virtually impossible in the time given. Kicking someone for having poor skills or no knowledge of the fight would most likely fall under a difference in playstyles, which the GM's have previously said is not a reason for taking action against accounts.

I've had players report getting 3 day bans after making habit of using the vote-kick system. It's not harassment that is required for action to be taken, it's abuse of the system. So one who makes a habit of enforcing the mentality tends to receive the backlash.

If you wish to put your account to the test for this, be my guest. SE has already declared multiple times that they take abuse of the Vote-kick system seriously, and I have seen the effects of it. Take it for what you will.

That's just it, though. There has to be abuse or harassment. Kicking a player that's holding the group back isn't abuse, especially if a basic explanation of mechs has been given and they aren't listening or just aren't getting it.

@OP - I honestly would suggest making a learning party. Don't look for them, because you won't find many. Take the initiative to make your own. There will be experienced players willing to help you because of the bonus soldiery, and you may pick up a few players like yourself that want to learn and haven't been able to find parties for it. I would honestly recommend watching a video. I don't like watching them myself; I learn better from doing. Videos can be pretty valuable for giving you the basic outline of the fight mechanics, but the nuances come with experience. As you repeat the fight, you will learn little tricks to your role that you won't learn from a general guide.

[Hyrist]

That's just it, though. There has to be abuse or harassment. Kicking a player that's holding the group back isn't abuse, especially if a basic explanation of mechs has been given and they aren't listening or just aren't getting it.

That's not for you or I to determine. That's for the GM to determine, and again, abuse of the system, which is can simply be ascertained by having enough reports against the individual for votkick abuse, is enough grounds for the GM or SGM to make the call.

It does not need to be simple abuse of a single individual. At all. While GMs have a rubric to follow, cases like that fall to their discretion (usually, the SGM or team leader would make the call). A person who's going to votekick abuse like that is going to get attention paid to them, and not of the kind they want.

And I don't play the skepticism game. I deal with facts and experience. Turn around on GM calls can be anywhere between that night to months later depending on the amount of investigation needed. When you are building a case of mechanic abuse behavior, especially as one on an area as contestable as votekick, it can take a while.


If you guys want to take these risks to enforce an imaginary standard that the majority of the game neither knows of or agrees with, do so at your own peril.

Speaking of averages, me and my fc went to t6 to help someone gear up his pld last week

Completely disqualified your argument. You came into the DF with the purpose of aiding someone, worked with those who were new to the mechanics, expected wipes, got them, and clears. You were willing, and able to, experiment with the players, regardless of their level of mechanics. Just so happened that they were competent enough to do the job.

On the matter of luck with Duty Finder, I have a FC member that rolls a 1 on a d20 so many times of late that it's become an expectation. That does not mean there are not another 19 sides it can land on just as easily. The idea is to go into DF expecting you're going to have to put some work into pulling the party together. It's the pretense of patience that matters.

Examples are being thrown around on how someone who has cleared T5 should have their mechanics down by T6 - but it doesn't account for things like Class changes. Someone who used to main DPS and got through Twintania may not be as good at tanking going into the DF, but did it because he was exasperated with DPS queues. They're likely going to need help on matters that some people are going to think they should have down by now. It does not mean they are a bad person or should be instantly kicked because of it. Especially when it comes the Duty Finder.

I swear, it shouldn't be so exasperating to tell people to be patient when dealing with randoms.

[Gardes]

This is why my Free Company makes it a concerted effort to assist all our members so they are not forced to resort to Duty Finder.

I swear, it shouldn't be so exasperating to tell people to be patient when dealing with randoms.

I don't know why you're preaching this hard about patience when you and your fc is already dodging the DF from the get go, either.

That's not for you or I to determine. That's for the GM to determine, and again, abuse of the system, which is can simply be ascertained by having enough reports against the individual for votkick abuse, is enough grounds for the GM or SGM to make the call.

And I don't play the skepticism game. I deal with facts and experience. Turn around on GM calls can be anywhere between that night to months later depending on the amount of investigation needed. When you are building a case of mechanic abuse behavior, especially as one on an area as contestable as votekick, it can take a while.

So basically there's no complete proof about what's going to happen to a player on any offense and what you claim as fact has been hear say from other players, despite there are hear say from other players that are the exact opposite. I still don't see how this makes it official that players going into a df MUST have the same mindset as the newcomers instead of expecting randomness from ALL sides (including a newplayer getting 7 other people who went in there to win) and expecting random outcomes of getting a win, abandon or getting kicked, especially when there's an actual gm reply posted in the forums stating that player removal over play style disagreement isnt something that gms are goind to do something about. Plus, the whole game community at large isn't even united on this front because someone just said that another data center treats the df differently.

[SpookyGhost]

Start a learning party in PF. See if anyone in your FC will help you with it. There's still statics out there progressing in SCoB, so you could also try finding one of those. It's fine not to watch guides as long as you're willing to listen and learn from your mistakes. Good luck in T6.

[Hyrist]

Start a learning party in PF. See if anyone in your FC will help you with it. There's still statics out there progressing in SCoB, so you could also try finding one of those. It's fine not to watch guides as long as you're willing to listen and learn from your mistakes. Good luck in T6.

To the OP:

I second this. Finding a good group to come together is great. Again casual players are just now broaching towards Turn 9 and are likely looking for people willing to push through the long haul on it. My company is even behind that, resigning themselves to learning the mechanics of each Turn going up before advancing, and weaving in events that catch other members of the FC up to objectives like First Coil and Primals. (Helping people with bad internet connections through Titan Ex and whatnot.) I'm fairly certain that if you keep looking you will find a group willing to help you out. Just be patient, yet persistent.

[Kazumac]

For best results create your own learning party and work with friends/fc/ls. Barring that you can go into a duty finder but it's like rolling the dice on whether or not you get a group that will be helpful to a new player or as you get more experience, a group experienced enough that you can continue learning (ie when you are working on phase 3, a group that is still struggling with phase 1).

DF is a no expectations area, consider it like a suggested party. There's not obligation of anyone when you get there and the party may fall apart immediately or remove you. And likewise you can leave if you don't like it.

The social interactions and expectations of the Japanese player base cannot be applied to NA servers. Those come with their own issues and have just switched the PF and DF around as many have stated. It would be great to see more learning pts in PF so I'd suggest making them. They tend to fill up pretty fast in my experience.

[Yumi_umi]

Imo its kinda messed up how se and the community made the content progression go all new player unfriendly.
Like its already rough trying to get back into 2nd coil and clearing it without having a dozen of clears.
Can u imagine how bad it'd be for first coilers?
The rule now is if you didn't clear it when the content was hot then ur gonna have a bad time unless u have connections to groups.

[Ashkendor]

Imo its kinda messed up how se and the community made the content progression go all new player unfriendly.
Like its already rough trying to get back into 2nd coil and clearing it without having a dozen of clears.
Can u imagine how bad it'd be for first coilers?
The rule now is if you didn't clear it when the content was hot then ur gonna have a bad time unless u have connections to groups.

Nah. Hell, me and some friends routinely put up PF's looking for people needing first coil clears.

Dat 100 soldiery bonus is hella nice.

First coil is basically an utter faceroll outside of T5; there you actually have to pay attention to mechanics.