Finally got through T5. Time to learn T6?

[Sapphic]

The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by helping new players learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by not being helped as a new player to learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

[Barboron]

The Duty Finder is meant for both new and experienced players.
If you are offended by helping new players learn content in a duty finder, I would recommend you avoid it in the future and stick to making pre-made or simply leave the group.

I guess you kind of cherry picked some of what I said. As I actually said :

It's not that someone is new to the fight but rather hasn't put the effort in.

I don't care if I see the 100 Soldiery bonus when starting a duty, I trust a new player who knows the fight as much as most "experienced" players.

However, if the DF is there for learning purposes, how can new players be expected to clear content? If a new player is unable to find a group, which they obviously are since they use the DF, how can they clear the likes of T5, only an example, in the DF if it is for learning players only? A player who has learned the first and second, maybe even third, phases may continually end up getting players learning the first phase. See what's happening here? A player who is there to learn is preventing another player from learning.

Teaching people or learning is all well and good but teaching people who don't even make a small look ahead, gets difficult considering the time restraint and the other players in the duty. It's not all about the new player. Unfortunately, majority rules, and the people learning tend to be of the few.

The reason you don't see learning parties often in the PF, although I do still see them, is because they aren't willing to find people. So, instead, stick 7 other random players with the task via the DF to teach them.

If you are new to a fight and get away without having looked at it, fair play to you. I won't condemn anyone. I would just rather, that when I enter the DF, that people put in that bit of effort so should I try and teach them, it makes it easier for me. So when I name a mechanic, they aren't confused. I will assist people who put in that effort, but not people who don't.

[Lemuria]

However, if the DF is there for learning purposes, how can new players be expected to clear content? If a new player is unable to find a group, which they obviously are since they use the DF, how can they clear the likes of T5, only an example, in the DF if it is for learning players only? A player who has learned the first and second, maybe even third, phases may continually end up getting players learning the first phase. See what's happening here? A player who is there to learn is preventing another player from learning.

If you have to use circular logic in an argument, you've already lost.

This really isn't rocket science here. You can watch every video under the sun, but the only way to learn is to experience. The easiest way to do this is the Duty Finder. It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, it's the cold, hard truth. I click a check box, hit a button. Done. I'm in the queue for the next fight. No running around trying to find like-minded players who want to learn or are willing to help others learn (hint, those are REALLY hard to find these days).

So, you're going to be teamed up with inexperienced players. You're going to have to expect not everyone fully understands the fight. Even if they've watched a Youtube video you're going to find players who missed key mechanics doing so. And lastly, you're going to find it more difficult. The chances of you actually being matched with a team thats fully competent are far slimmer than the chances of being mixed with new players.

So, you can either be toxic and deny these people the chance to learn by vote kicking even though you KNEW in advance what to expect, or you can work WITH these players so the next time they show up in the Duty Finder they're a little bit wiser and a lot more beneficial to the team. With posts like these ones in this forum, it's no wonder new players consider our community to be less than welcoming.

[Barboron]

You can watch every video under the sun, but the only way to learn is to experience.

Do I have to reiterate my point here? Or do people have difficult reading? If someone watches a video, reads a guide, or does something in an attempt to prepare themselves by knowing the fight, by all means if I end up with them in the DF I have no issue assisting them.

The easiest way to do this is the Duty Finder. It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, it's the cold, hard truth. I click a check box, hit a button. Done. I'm in the queue for the next fight. No running around trying to find like-minded players who want to learn or are willing to help others learn (hint, those are REALLY hard to find these days).

Easiest, but laziest way. That's why people haven't cleared content. See it time and time again on the forums that people "can't find parties" because they are waiting for someone else to start one.

[Lemuria]

Do I have to reiterate my point here? Or do people have difficult reading? If someone watches a video, reads a guide, or does something in an attempt to prepare themselves by knowing the fight, by all means if I end up with them in the DF I have no issue assisting them.

What's the difference between someone who's not taken the guide on board fully and someone completely new to the fight? Zero, that's what, so your point is moot on that basis alone. The point still stands that they're going to need to learn how to fight, and the best way to get further is to help them, not hinder them by being a bigot.

Easiest, but laziest way. That's why people haven't cleared content. See it time and time again on the forums that people "can't find parties" because they are waiting for someone else to start one.

Only an idiot would ignore the fact that actually getting hands-on experience is going to help you a LOT more than wasting hours trying to find a single group for a handful of runs. Sure, you may not WIN by running the Duty Finder, but you get experience and you can get a lot of it quickly. It's far from lazy to want to get the experience to get better, and thankfully not everyone in DF is like you and may even be willing to lend a few tips from their own experiences.

There are two ways to play. Be a part of the problem, or be part of the solution. You seem to prefer the former

[Aldora]

So, you're going to be teamed up with inexperienced players. You're going to have to expect not everyone fully understands the fight. Even if they've watched a Youtube video you're going to find players who missed key mechanics doing so. And lastly, you're going to find it more difficult. The chances of you actually being matched with a team thats fully competent are far slimmer than the chances of being mixed with new players.

So, you can either be toxic and deny these people the chance to learn by vote kicking even though you KNEW in advance what to expect, or you can work WITH these players so the next time they show up in the Duty Finder they're a little bit wiser and a lot more beneficial to the team.

Thank you. Those are my thoughts exactly, but you used a better way to describe them.

I also like to add that the same applies for speed running too. Not every player is speed run material or is well versed in speed running tactics. I’ve been working on my new Zodiac questline which requires me to run the old dungeons for certain drops. I tend to go in as a healer, rather than a Tank since i personally don’t want to speed run (especially as a tank) but i can manage as a healer. So far, 95% of the dungeon runs i did (didn’t matter which dungeon it was) people wanted to speed run it (without consulting with the rest if they are up for it).

The thing is, like Lemuria said earlier, you can’t expect everyone to be on the same level as you in the DF. Especially when it comes to the lower level dungeons. I still find a lot of people in there who are leveling their class. There are plenty of people who are quite experienced with the content, but you’ll never know for sure if you simply queue up for a Dungeon/Raid/Trial in the DF without a pre-made party.

So, @OP, it’s never too late to learn a new Turn, Trial or Dungeon. Although, the safest way to form a learning party is through the PF, since you can explicitly say that you will queue up for Turn 6 as a learning party (but that doesn’t mean you can’t use the DF for that). A lot of experienced people would most likely join you, since they will be getting the Bonus Tomes from it, but you will also get the chance to meet people who are in the same boat as you.

Who knows, you might even find enough people to form a Static with for content like this. (^_^ )

So i’d like to say <Good Luck!> in T6, and i hope you will clear it soon! (^_^ )-b

[Hazama999]

Good question. You play your way and I respect that, but why should I hold random people in a random matchmaking system to my own standards?

I'm not actually expecting players to explain the fight to me. As far as effort is concerned, I'd like to think that I'm perceptive enough to put 2 and 2 together when it comes to learning raid mechanics. To this end, I've made good use of my PS4's recording feature x)

That's pretty much how I learned T5 back when there were still a few learning parties left for it. Is this not effort?

[Odett]

Good question. You play your way and I respect that, but why should I hold random people in a random matchmaking system to my own standards?

I'm not actually expecting players to explain the fight to me. As far as effort is concerned, I'd like to think that I'm perceptive enough to put 2 and 2 together when it comes to learning raid mechanics. To this end, I've made good use of my PS4's recording feature x)

That's pretty much how I learned T5 back when there were still a few learning parties left for it. Is this not effort?

The problem with this line of thinking is that for these kinds of fights, if you don't know what you're doing, you will get the group wiped. It can be considered selfish and disrespectful to many people if you're wasting the time of 7 other players because you refused to watch a guide of the fight (just to learn the mechanics you need to watch out for) that is most likely shorter than your queue time to get in as a DPS.

[silentwindfr]

DF = Random group, PF = are group aimed to a content with recquirement placed by the leader.
in the DF you have no control on the people that will come into the group (ilevel, class,...). in PF you can decide the ilevel and the class present and much more...

it's why it's stupid to hope for get what you want in DF and quite rude, like i have said is safer to organize a group in PF with people sharing the same goal instead to simply ask to everybody to have the same level of experience and decide to kick a person because he don't match your critera into DF. DF are not your personal belonging.... it's pure random... if you want something more.... like this.... just make a PF.

[Gardes]

Rule of averages did. It does not matter how many parties you mistreat, eventually you kicking someone for poor player skill will wind up with one too many reports on your record and action will be taken. That's how it gets officiated.

Is there any proof of that? I've gotten myself kicked for refusing to leave new players behind in praetorium and when I reported it, one of the first questions asked by the gm was whether the people kicking me out ever said anything in relation to the kick, which leads me to believe that unless there's any solid proof of harassment before kicking, they will not take any action. I havent seen many kicks but my exp says it's usually silent kicks when it comes to content experience matters.

it's why it's stupid to hope for get what you want in DF and quite rude, like i have said is safer to organize a group in PF with people sharing the same goal instead to simply ask to everybody to have the same level of experience and decide to kick a person because he don't match your critera into DF.

Again, how does this not work both ways? Why is someone new allowed to expect new player friendly party in a df but an experienced player not allowed to expect a win goal party in a df? If the latter isnt welcome in the df, how is the df considered random when only people who are new or friendly to new players are in it? It'll all be learning parties, period. If it's truly random, why should new players expect red carpets all the time? Shouldn't he use the PF all the same, if the exp players are expected to PF to get what he wants too?